mark3evo
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always better for your own body to fight cancer
i'm surviving 4 years further on, always found it was better to FAST before chemo - as body goes into repair mode
Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter Bumblebee
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i'm surviving 4 years further on, always found it was better to FAST before chemo - as body goes into repair mode
Zerks
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Congrats on beating it back into remission... Life is good when you are healthy.
It's hard to say how this war will play out....the Russians are said to be learning from past mistakes and the Ukrainians are getting desperate...I wonder if the two will intersect....will the Ukrainian desperation overwhelm the new knowledge of the Russians?
With the constant call for arms and equipment, the west is basically fighting this war minus boots on the ground (that we know of).
I saw the Russians were quick to try and barter the release of a pro-Russian diplomat for two British citizens they captured....that's something I'd see from a terrorist cell.
With the constant call for arms and equipment, the west is basically fighting this war minus boots on the ground (that we know of).
I saw the Russians were quick to try and barter the release of a pro-Russian diplomat for two British citizens they captured....that's something I'd see from a terrorist cell.
mark3evo
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yes but British citizens whilst serving with Ukraine marines - there are consequences of volunteers fighting for Ukraine.
Best not get caught
I'll bet the Russians are benefiting from examining all the captured weapon systems the west poured into Ukraine too....
Now I read the UK is looking into sending anti-ship missiles to the Ukraine...
I also saw there were a few advanced Russian systems captured of which I'm certain have been well examined by western specialists...
Now I read the UK is looking into sending anti-ship missiles to the Ukraine...
I also saw there were a few advanced Russian systems captured of which I'm certain have been well examined by western specialists...
Zerks
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Just imagine the deep dive by China'a military tech guys as they gained access to some of the 85 billion dollars worth of military hardware Joe left behind in Afghanistan.
What do these wars accomplish anyway? I know, superior ways to destroy lives and property so the MIC can prosper... Eisenhower warned us...
What do these wars accomplish anyway? I know, superior ways to destroy lives and property so the MIC can prosper... Eisenhower warned us...
What you seem to not be getting is it don't matter who was in the seat as President of the USA, that gear was always going to be left behind.
It was intended to be used by the ANA/ANP...and it wasn't the latest and greatest tech...and was never going to leave Afghanistan.
Wars have been fought ever since the first man picked up a stick to defend his hunting area....and sadly they will be fought long after we are gone and turned to dust.
85 billion? BS. Prove it.
SSLogistics
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CITE!!!!!!!!!
President Trump does not seem like the type that would have abandonded arms that the enemey could use
You seem to be dogging me on each and every thread of your choosing....
Ok, I'll bite
Former president Trump had no plan to remove that equipment out of Afghanistan...it was given to the ANA/ANP to fight the insurgents....it was embedded into the military the coalition trained-that military folded up like a cheap suit-nobody expected that nor could anyone plan for that.
Fact-it would have taken months and months to locate, stage and move that equipment and I'd wager it would be been under fire.
The only way it could have been recovered is if a full contingent of a couple hundred thousand troops were dropped into Afghanistan to fight back the Taliban and then fight the ANA/ANP when they went to disarm them....then try to get that equipment out of the country...it would have to be moved via land as any and all airlifts would have come under fire....and even a land move would have seen a lot of death and destruction.
I don't know if you've served in the military or in what capacity but even a 1st year officer cadet could see the folly of this attempt.
kim windsor
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I think he is sending his only son to save the day !
Hmmmm . . that sounds like Some One else I know . .
Zerks
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I was passing on the figures from a number of sources that reported it. I didn't go over there to do an inventory of it all. All equipment is tracked through various agencies one way or another. Since you like to throw doubt wherever you think it will stick, then, poke around and see what you can discover that refutes what has been reported. I will wait for it.
Zerks
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Where did the memo for president Trump not having a plan to remove equipment come from?
How about gutting the electronics and removing vital parts as a way to demobilize equipment therefor making it useless for nothing more that scrap metal? How about using weapons to destroy military hardware to expedite the usefulness of those vehicles? How about booby trapping vehicles that make salvaging them like trying to clear minefields. How about putting a few mines around sequestered equipment?
Clearly the real plan was to fortify the enemy or enemies of America's involvement in Afghanistan.
SSLogistics
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I came here because I had a No Start issue and was seeking a no start diagnostics tree or something because I did not feel like actually working on the bike at the moment. After solving the bike problem I updated my post and just started poking around and posting on some recent off-topic threads and you just happened to be in the recent off-topic threads so you need not feel dogged.
Ahhhhhh, I understand, logistics! I am sure President Trump also understands logistics and would appoint a qualified person to handle getting the stuff out. After all the years, there was no need to do an immediate knee jerk retreat.
But then according to you, nothing was abandoned! I have not obsessed on this and have not read too much about it but I do see and hear all the headlines about it and all I hear is how much got left behind. When I hear BOTH sides saying the same thing it just seems like there is no need to dig into it. Rarely does the Main Stream Media (AKA The Commissar) make the same points as the Right News outlets.
The folly of moving the equipment???? How do you think it got there? Of course it did not show up all at once but there was a war going on. Now with most of the action shut down a more concentrated effort to move the stuff is not a bewildering proposition.
Did the White House even deny the reports?
It took 20 years to insert all that equipment and it was spread all over Afghanistan (which is not a tiny little place) and was in the hands of the ANA/ANP.....there was no plan in place to take this equipment away from them as they were SUPPOSED to be using it to fight the insurgents (Taliban and ISIS).
The equipment the ANA/ANP was not cutting edge, most of it was mainstream equipment the US sells offshore to many countries...
I will guarantee the enemies of the US have had most of this equipment in their hands to study long before the fall of the Afghan government.
...and.....the US was not the only country to provide equipment to the ANA/ANP...many other countries contributed.
It would have been a huge undertaking to try and remove that equipment from Afghanistan....I couldn't even begin to tell you how many airlifts it took to get it there in the first place but it would take just as many and lots of manpower to gather, stage and prep it all for airlift out.
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Anyone could type up such a memo-even after the fact if it made them look good..
I'm not sure when you deployed to Afghanistan but when I was there (a few times) the ANA/ANP were using that equipment to fight the insurgents....pretty hard to blow it up or booby trap it when troops and police are driving them around and fighting from them....and calling in air power to destroy them would be some sort of a feat....each one would have to be lased by a ground team.....
ANA/ANP bases and outposts were scattered all over the country...there might be only 2-3 pieces in a given location but there were hundreds of locations. It would take a very large contingent to even attempt what you are saying not to mention the size of the security force to protect them while they are doing this-all under fire and most likely from the ANA/ANPO when you try to take their equipment away.
....then you have to get the team and security force out of the country all while most likely under fire...
At the peak there were over 250k troops in Afghanistan and the Taliban were still not contained or under control.
Zerks
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Did someone famously say years ago? War is futile. As we stand back and look at history we see the dark side of civilization. I agree war has freed people from the grip of totalitarian control many times in history... the cost in lives has been horrendous. All of it plays out because somebody with power thinks taking property and resources, or controlling others is their life's purpose.
SSLogistics
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Did it somehow escape your vigilance that I had already addressed the issues you mention in this post?
If you want to reply to my post you may wanna try to keep focused instead of regurgitating BS that has already been refuted. Besides you already made a point that slightly wins this issue.
While you are still wrong with regard to the logistics of the situation unless you demand the withdrawal is done under a failed plan - and it was. Maybe there is a reason that Dementia Joe thought we had to pull out right now with no preparation or plan after being there for all them years. As I said, we got it over there OVER TIME - emphasis added because you seem to have either missed or conveniently ignored that part of my post - and we could gather it up and fly it out. This is no big deal for anybody with just a little experience in logistical matters when one has the resources in place that were in place.
Why did I say you already slightly won this one? I say slightly because it was still a FAIL but some of the stuff, as you said, was never to be taken because it was given to them. Do we take it back after giving it to them? That does not seem right except that they rolled over and surrendered it all to the enemy....In the news today:
President Biden pledged last April that the US withdrawal would be conducted "responsibly, deliberately, and safely." That was a lie, as thousands of abandoned Americans and allies can attest. Yet when the chaos unfolded, Biden called it an "extraordinary success." Appalling.
“Thousands” ? Where are they now, dead, in prison? SMH! The seven billion dollars worth of equipment is certainly more accurate than zerks’ 82 billion reference though but if you know anything about history which obviously you don’t, the US has never removed all the war equipment after its involvement in foreign wars. The task would be monumental and cost prohibitive.
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