Russia and Ukraine

[Zerks]

“Thousands” ? Where are they now, dead, in prison? SMH! The seven billion dollars worth of equipment is certainly more accurate than zerks’ 82 billion reference though but if you know anything about history which obviously you don’t, the US has never removed all the war equipment after its involvement in foreign wars. The task would be monumental and cost prohibitive.

Not only have they not removed it... at the end of WW2 my 2nd cousin who was a radio operator in the Philippines witnessed brand new P-38 Lightnings being pushed over the edge of the aircraft carrier he was on as they sailed back to the USA when the war ended. It broke his heart to see brand new planes destroyed in one simple act.

The MIC doesn't want the stuff returned that was sent out to fight wars. They want it all scraped so they can bill the DOD for all the new stuff they build to replace what was already left behind. Next thing you know you will be telling us Eisenhower was a liar or some other stupid crap.
SSDD...

 

[Bumblebee]

Did it somehow escape your vigilance that I had already addressed the issues you mention in this post?

If you want to reply to my post you may wanna try to keep focused instead of regurgitating BS that has already been refuted. Besides you already made a point that slightly wins this issue.

While you are still wrong with regard to the logistics of the situation unless you demand the withdrawal is done under a failed plan - and it was. Maybe there is a reason that Dementia Joe thought we had to pull out right now with no preparation or plan after being there for all them years. As I said, we got it over there OVER TIME - emphasis added because you seem to have either missed or conveniently ignored that part of my post - and we could gather it up and fly it out. This is no big deal for anybody with just a little experience in logistical matters when one has the resources in place that were in place.

Why did I say you already slightly won this one? I say slightly because it was still a FAIL but some of the stuff, as you said, was never to be taken because it was given to them. Do we take it back after giving it to them? That does not seem right except that they rolled over and surrendered it all to the enemy....In the news today:

WATCH: 'Gotcha' Question Backfires on House Democratic Leader

Owned.

townhall.com

President Biden pledged last April that the US withdrawal would be conducted "responsibly, deliberately, and safely." That was a lie, as thousands of abandoned Americans and allies can attest. Yet when the chaos unfolded, Biden called it an "extraordinary success." Appalling.

I don't know how many tactical or strategic withdrawals you have been involved with but I have been involved with several and there is no such thing as a simple withdrawal of equipment on a large of scale as this would have been.....

I almost laughed out loud to myself when I read your comment regarding "gathering it up and flying it our" talk about not focusing on reading posts...I spelt out how that would have gone already.....there is absolutely no way short of launching a full scale mission of several hundred thousand troops and support to gather up that equipment not to mention trying to fly it out....it would take every strategic cargo aircraft in the US inventory to do this in any sort of short time frame.

The US withdraw might have seemed rushed but remember there were only 5000 US military members still in theater when he ordered the final pull out...out of those 5000 members a small number of them are combat troops.

The similarity between the withdraw of Viet Nam and Afghanistan are remarkably similar...any and all civilians were wanting to leave the country by any means they could....many of these civilians' contracts to work with NATO were long since expired as many of the bases were already turned over to the ANA.

If we talk about the media sensationalizing events, this was one of them.

 

[Bumblebee]

Not only have they not removed it... at the end of WW2 my 2nd cousin who was a radio operator in the Philippines witnessed brand new P-38 Lightnings being pushed over the edge of the aircraft carrier he was on as they sailed back to the USA when the war ended. It broke his heart to see brand new planes destroyed in one simple act.

The MIC doesn't want the stuff returned that was sent out to fight wars. They want it all scraped so they can bill the DOD for all the new stuff they build to replace what was already left behind. Next thing you know you will be telling us Eisenhower was a liar or some other stupid crap.
SSDD...

The USA has left equipment all over the globe.....up north they'd drive the equipment onto the ice and it would magically disappear in the spring...there are lakes full of US equipment.

I was told it is more expensive to recover it than to retrieve it...

 

[Bumblebee]

Did someone famously say years ago? War is futile. As we stand back and look at history we see the dark side of civilization. I agree war has freed people from the grip of totalitarian control many times in history... the cost in lives has been horrendous. All of it plays out because somebody with power thinks taking property and resources, or controlling others is their life's purpose.

Wars have been fought ever since the first cave dweller picked up a stick and will be fought until some future cave dweller picks up a stick...

 

[Zerks]

Wars have been fought ever since the first cave dweller picked up a stick and will be fought until some future cave dweller picks up a stick...

In this world of failing leadership it stands to reason based on how they behave or mis behave that the people leading it will never respect the people or the property other people possess. It is a fundamental position commonly held that men are born into a world of scarcity and therefor must take whatever action it is that they think will sustain them. I guess these people don't comprehend the word "Co-op". Short for cooperation. Putin and others like him throughout history are willing to kill others to get whatever it is that they want.

I guess civilization has its limits for what is considered fairness and respect. We keep going back to the killing of others justifies the means to get something for little or nothing. The old ways of the past do a great dis-service to those born into this world as it marches through time.

 

[Zerks]

The USA has left equipment all over the globe.....up north they'd drive the equipment onto the ice and it would magically disappear in the spring...there are lakes full of US equipment.

I was told it is more expensive to recover it than to retrieve it...

I wouldn't argue that point... I have learned that motor vehicles are much cheaper to produce in large numbers than what they actually sell for with a few exceptions.

 

[Bumblebee]

In this world of failing leadership it stands to reason based on how they behave or mis behave that the people leading it will never respect the people or the property other people possess. It is a fundamental position commonly held that men are born into a world of scarcity and therefor must take whatever action it is that they think will sustain them. I guess these people don't comprehend the word "Co-op". Short for cooperation. Putin and others like him throughout history are willing to kill others to get whatever it is that they want.

I guess civilization has its limits for what is considered fairness and respect. We keep going back to the killing of others justifies the means to get something for little or nothing. The old ways of the past do a great dis-service to those born into this world as it marches through time.

Wars are complex...the US has been involved in more than it's fair share over the years under many different political administrations...

I might add there has never been a positive outcome to any recent wars other than breaking the stranglehold ISIS had...Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan all suffered greatly from recent wars and will take years upon years to recover if they ever do.

War is a big economic generator....mostly from arms sales....

 

[Zerks]

Wars are complex...the US has been involved in more than it's fair share over the years under many different political administrations...

I might add there has never been a positive outcome to any recent wars other than breaking the stranglehold ISIS had...Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan all suffered greatly from recent wars and will take years upon years to recover if they ever do.

War is a big economic generator....mostly from arms sales....

Add to that we teach young boys to play the game of Army. Gather up all those plastic men, tanks, planes, or whatever and pretend to do battle with your like minded friends at an early age. I had all that stuff and more as a kid. We were glorifying the battlefield before we had a clue about how deranged most of it is. Pre conditioned much?
As I have said for years... what better way to generate cash flow that to build a big expensive military... then... go out and destroy countries... then... hire contractors to rebuild much of it after the winner has been declared. SSDD... Marshall Plan?

Is this like the big version called Game of Thrones? I have never watched it... I like movies based off of true stories most of the time as compared to pure fiction even though fiction often contains elements of truth.

 

[Bumblebee]

Add to that we teach young boys to play the game of Army. Gather up all those plastic men, tanks, planes, or whatever and pretend to do battle with your like minded friends at an early age. I had all that stuff and more as a kid. We were glorifying the battlefield before we had a clue about how deranged most of it is. Pre conditioned much?
As I have said for years... what better way to generate cash flow that to build a big expensive military... then... go out and destroy countries... then... hire contractors to rebuild much of it after the winner has been declared. SSDD... Marshall Plan?

Is this like the big version called Game of Thrones? I have never watched it... I like movies based off of true stories most of the time as compared to pure fiction even though fiction often contains elements of truth.

Well as a guy who was trained to go to war and went, wars will always be fought.

Many people who are fighting these wars never had any army toys nor did they "play war" as many of them lived it.

Wars start over religion, politics, ideologies, ethnicity and race...people just aren't designed to get along.

Take a look at either of our countries, people are killing each other over just about anything...scale that up and you have a war.

There was a saying used by mercenaries...."killing's my business and business is good"

 

[turbobusa2000]

Well as a guy who was trained to go to war and went, wars will always be fought.

Many people who are fighting these wars never had any army toys nor did they "play war" as many of them lived it.

Wars start over religion, politics, ideologies, ethnicity and race...people just aren't designed to get along.

Take a look at either of our countries, people are killing each other over just about anything...scale that up and you have a war.

There was a saying used by mercenaries...."killing's my business and business is good"

People don’t make these wars. Those in power do. In general I think if the “people” had a choice, no matter their origin, would choose no war. Period. That however won’t stop the industry of war from continuing its manipulation of the people.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

How many wars would there be if the only fighting soldiers in every army were captains and above and over 60? Just wishful thinking…

 

[Zerks]

How many wars would there be if the only fighting soldiers in every army were captains and above and over 60? Just wishful thinking…

Yeah! I always wanted to see a cage fight between Bush 43 and Saddam. Bush stayed pretty active at that time, but, I have no idea what kind of shape Saddam was in though I have a hunch he might have been better with his fist than Bush Jr was.

 

[Zerks]

Well as a guy who was trained to go to war and went, wars will always be fought.

Many people who are fighting these wars never had any army toys nor did they "play war" as many of them lived it.

Wars start over religion, politics, ideologies, ethnicity and race...people just aren't designed to get along.

Take a look at either of our countries, people are killing each other over just about anything...scale that up and you have a war.

There was a saying used by mercenaries...."killing's my business and business is good"

When I was young you could still feel the hangover from WW2. Most adult people at that time wanted nothing to do with wars of any kind. It was compounded by the Cold War that was creating a certain level of tension that seemed threatening to many. Hollywood started glamorizing war with films that continued for years afterward from "Platoon" to "Apocalypse Now" and many more featuring big name actors like John Wayne.

I see you are convinced war will always be with us even though it doesn't have to be that way. The worlds leaders need to think and act their way out of the course we are currently on. Cooler heads are not prevailing over the more aggressive types that have forgotten what life is suppose to be about. In the end if it all goes wrong then the world will become a planet whose civilization became a failure that few will survive.

Contrary to what you believe... We are designed to get along peaceably... its the mentally clever in certain ways that will never bury the hatchet because they want control and power over others. I would call it a type of mental illness that infects people whose desire for power is sociopathic at best.

It appears to me that Mercenaries are slave beast that kill for the elites that are on a mission to conquer some other elites solders. I could be wrong about that... they might just be driving around and shooting all the dogs and cats that Animal Control haven't picked up yet. That whole "I am a warrior" mentality seems to carry over generation after generation. I have known a few acquaintances back in the 70s that liked nothing better than to start fights just for fun.

 

[Bumblebee]

People don’t make these wars. Those in power do. In general I think if the “people” had a choice, no matter their origin, would choose no war. Period. That however won’t stop the industry of war from continuing its manipulation of the people.

It sounds cut and dry doesn't it?

If you've been to some of the places I've been, the general populace of hatred towards another group of people is deep seated and thorough. It might be generational but it doesn't dissuade the fact these citizens would gladly engage and kill another society at a moment's notice....I'm not talking a fringe element, I'm talking the general populace..

Been there and saw it first hand-it's scary even for a guy in my former business...

 

[Bumblebee]

When I was young you could still feel the hangover from WW2. Most adult people at that time wanted nothing to do with wars of any kind. It was compounded by the Cold War that was creating a certain level of tension that seemed threatening to many. Hollywood started glamorizing war with films that continued for years afterward from "Platoon" to "Apocalypse Now" and many more featuring big name actors like John Wayne.

I see you are convinced war will always be with us even though it doesn't have to be that way. The worlds leaders need to think and act their way out of the course we are currently on. Cooler heads are not prevailing over the more aggressive types that have forgotten what life is suppose to be about. In the end if it all goes wrong then the world will become a planet whose civilization became a failure that few will survive.

Contrary to what you believe... We are designed to get along peaceably... its the mentally clever in certain ways that will never bury the hatchet because they want control and power over others. I would call it a type of mental illness that infects people whose desire for power is sociopathic at best.

It appears to me that Mercenaries are slave beast that kill for the elites that are on a mission to conquer some other elites solders. I could be wrong about that... they might just be driving around and shooting all the dogs and cats that Animal Control haven't picked up yet. That whole "I am a warrior" mentality seems to carry over generation after generation. I have known a few acquaintances back in the 70s that liked nothing better than to start fights just for fun.

Well, I'm not an archeologist but those who are have studied this at length and have found mankind to have fought each other over many things, ever since mankind started living in groups...these same conditions are present today.

Mankind's hatred for each other is deep-seated, the politicians may generate the catalyst for wars, but the soldiers (who are citizens) fight with great vigor for a cause they believe in.

Wars are fought in the animal kingdom-chimpanzees have been known to fight other groups for feeding areas and mating rights, they have been observed kidnapping females from other troupes and killing each other...

We've captured enemy combatants who are very much set in their ideology, they wouldn't hesitate to strap 10 lbs of C-4 to themselves to kill whomever they can in the name of their religion and ideology.

I've ran across others who had such a deep-seated hatred for their enemy (In Bosnia) that there was no amount of rehabilitation that would take that away from them....and it wasn't just a few, it was all of them-they all felt the same way.

I reckon the same is occurring in the Ukraine right now, there is such a deep-seated hatred that the war happening there was inevitable...it was a volcano waiting to erupt-a war the west is fighting via proxy.

 

[Zerks]

Well, I'm not an archeologist but those who are have studied this at length and have found mankind to have fought each other over many things, ever since mankind started living in groups...these same conditions are present today.

Mankind's hatred for each other is deep-seated, the politicians may generate the catalyst for wars, but the soldiers (who are citizens) fight with great vigor for a cause they believe in.

Wars are fought in the animal kingdom-chimpanzees have been known to fight other groups for feeding areas and mating rights, they have been observed kidnapping females from other troupes and killing each other...

We've captured enemy combatants who are very much set in their ideology, they wouldn't hesitate to strap 10 lbs of C-4 to themselves to kill whomever they can in the name of their religion and ideology.

I've ran across others who had such a deep-seated hatred for their enemy (In Bosnia) that there was no amount of rehabilitation that would take that away from them....and it wasn't just a few, it was all of them-they all felt the same way.

I reckon the same is occurring in the Ukraine right now, there is such a deep-seated hatred that the war happening there was inevitable...it was a volcano waiting to erupt-a war the west is fighting via proxy.

Great post to broaden my understanding of the nature of life you put together there.

It reveals how programmable people and animals such as monkeys are. The monkeys fighting each other for food and mating rights shows us how hard wired we / they are on certain levels.

Seeing those kids in certain islamic areas of the world having to repeatedly repeat the words of hate against others for hours day after day is a one way ticket to a life of hatred and destruction. The men you captured that would strap on some C-4 to kill others may have had that indoctrination cycle instilled in them earlier in life.

The people that indoctrinate the youth in that manner must have had the same upbringing that they are manipulating the next generation with.

The stage has been set... we are witnessing a new chapter in mans quest for dominance in disruptive ways that will most likely not end well. I hope I am wrong about that.

 

[Bumblebee]

Great post to broaden my understanding of the nature of life you put together there.

It reveals how programmable people and animals such as monkeys are. The monkeys fighting each other for food and mating rights shows us how hard wired we / they are on certain levels.

Seeing those kids in certain islamic areas of the world having to repeatedly repeat the words of hate against others for hours day after day is a one way ticket to a life of hatred and destruction. The men you captured that would strap on some C-4 to kill others may have had that indoctrination cycle instilled in them earlier in life.

The people that indoctrinate the youth in that manner must have had the same upbringing that they are manipulating the next generation with.

The stage has been set... we are witnessing a new chapter in mans quest for dominance in disruptive ways that will most likely not end well. I hope I am wrong about that.

It goes as far as social and mainstream media and how it is affecting people...

Indoctrination is a very easy tool to use...and societies around the globe have been using it for centuries and possibly millennia.

We see this sort of indoctrination in our countries....I've been to many back water places in the deep south where you'd think the war between the states was still going on. Many of those people have been systematically brainwashed to believe in their ideology and there is no room for compromise.

Look at Sharia law and how the Islamic people perceive it....there are many facets that want it incorporated into both our country's law system...it is a brutal system and of course it would never pass the Human Rights Commission but there are people enforcing it in our countries via the underground.

Those are just a couple examples of the tip of the iceberg.

 

[macka]

Wars start over religion, politics, ideologies, ethnicity and race...people just aren't designed to get along

wars dont start unless you have an army of brainwashed solders who will take orders from people who have a lust for violence, power, hate. Solders don't question brutality to women children elderly who are often victims to an invasion by an occupying force. look at the Ukraine for example or Iraq these wars are not based on people "Quote not designed to get along with each other"
Hate, Greed, Lust are the most powerful emotion man has at its disposal if it cannot be controlled it is devastating, an example; the propaganda brainwashing machine by the Nazi party caused Germany a country of law abiding good poeple to turn into people murderers. Solders don't think, they take orders, they are brainwashed to think the enemy deserve to die. they are the pawns of sick individuals.
Peace negotiators are the real hero's of the world, Look at the UN its a sad piece of work the top 3 countries of the UN ( supposed to be the worlds security council) are the worst offenders they are in the business of selling war, The UN its a corrupt organization allowing no justice for criminal activity, Putin's a killing machine but has a top seat in the UN council

 

[Bumblebee]

wars dont start unless you have an army of brainwashed solders who will take orders from people who have a lust for violence, power, hate. Solders don't question brutality to women children elderly who are often victims to an invasion by an occupying force. look at the Ukraine for example or Iraq these wars are not based on people "Quote not designed to get along with each other"
Hate, Greed, Lust are the most powerful emotion man has at its disposal if it cannot be controlled it is devastating, an example; the propaganda brainwashing machine by the Nazi party caused Germany a country of law abiding good poeple to turn into people murderers. Solders don't think, they take orders, they are brainwashed to think the enemy deserve to die. they are the pawns of sick individuals.
Peace negotiators are the real hero's of the world, Look at the UN its a sad piece of work the top 3 countries of the UN ( supposed to be the worlds security council) are the worst offenders they are in the business of selling war, The UN its a corrupt organization allowing no justice for criminal activity, Putin's a killing machine but has a top seat in the UN council

There are people dying every minute around the world due to some sort of military interaction.

I don't know if you've ever served but from the sounds of it I'd say not. Until you've been to these places and experienced what actually goes on, it's hard to explain it to you.

My point is/was-people have been killing each other ever since there have been people...we are just better at it now....religion, ideology, race, ethnicity and political alignment, are all catalysts to war.

In all wars, civilian population has been caught between two warring factions....ISIS, the Taliban and other factions used them as human shields....western militaries respected that fact and would use other means to dispatch the insurgents...other nations do not and shoot through the human shields.

The UN has no teeth, many of these countries don't respect you unless you have the means to wipe them out.

 

[macka]

There are people dying every minute around the world due to some sort of military interaction.

I don't know if you've ever served but from the sounds of it I'd say not. Until you've been to these places and experienced what actually goes on, it's hard to explain it to you.

My point is/was-people have been killing each other ever since there have been people...we are just better at it now....religion, ideology, race, ethnicity and political alignment, are all catalysts to war.

In all wars, civilian population has been caught between two warring factions....ISIS, the Taliban and other factions used them as human shields....western militaries respected that fact and would use other means to dispatch the insurgents...other nations do not and shoot through the human shields.

The UN has no teeth, many of these countries don't respect you unless you have the means to wipe them out.

Nobody respects thugs criminals or any other means of violence to control people you are delusional