Since 1999 A Busa codes to c31 6Fixed

[CAT3]

Cougar... this guy (2busa) is as sharp a tool as a rubber malet. Everything about him screams shitpot stirrer, from his misues of logical terminology, to his Screen Name, 2busa, which he doesn't even have a Busa! He calculates in his abstract theories the absoluteness of nothing. He probably thinks Black is the absence of color or something similarly off the wall. He actually shows no logic, no reason, and no original thought...even the video was prompted, however he didn't listen to the prompt, so he f*cked that up too. I actually feel very bad for him, to live in such a absolute perplexing paradox of ambiguity and with no logic or opening for interpretational ability of things outside of that in which he focuses. Theoretically speaking, he's a genius of sorts, too bad that can't be proven either!

 

[2busa]

This is so absolute in design, It's going to blow you away, it's so absolute...

Which of the 3 GPS wires will not trigger the 6Fx?

1. The wire to ground?
2. The wire to the (homework) _?
3. The wire to the ECM?


To make it easier, here is a clue... The manual does not tell you which wire for, c31.

Think Suz will tell you what 6fx means, or what it does? I could care less. It will not start the bike. Get it? What do I care about a fuel plot; when the computer runs the show. I have plenty of extra fuel management tools outside (Pc, injector size, fuel pressure boost) to step up the fuel spray. I can read a plug and re-jet like the old days. I want to learn the 'physical' ticks of the (computer) bike instead. You're working the very complex... which makes you miss the opposite.

This is strictly diagnostic theory. Many sensors begin to look like one. The easier you make the bike look, the less overwhelmed the troubleshooting. Finding a problem will be easier. Figure out one sensor, the others become as easy to troubleshoot.

 

[cougar694u]

You still didn't prove the clutch mod will not work. That's what this thread was about.

Albert Einstein was autistic, too.

 

[2busa]

(cougar694u @ Jan. 24 2007,06:15) You still didn't prove the clutch mod will not work. That's what this thread was about.

This thread will show you how to diagnose the bike. This thread will try to interpret the shop manual, and show how 3 wires will default to the, 6fx = 3 WAYS....

!. Ground wire - Removed one wire/ground wire loose at frame = complete circuit disrupted = 6fx.
2. ECU wire pings an ohm/tre (resistance) in between the ECU and sensor assembly- Communication lost = 6fx.
3. GPS unit removed - Gouge unit to "bleed' voltage value to ground (gouge 6th onto 5th gear to read 5th gear? Either way, u f'd up the unit from stock) = 6fx.

Cougar, I've sent 3 wires to 3 different combinations of common failure. 1. I sent a wire to ground. 2. I Tandy'd an ohm resistor to a wire connector, which block the signal ping at the connector, then back to the computer, (never pinging down to GPS resistor at the end of the wire in the bake). 3. A wire not making a connection at the main wire harness and GPG connector, (e.g., R&R engine).

The shop manual does not say a specific GPS wire will trigger the 6fx. The manual says, "any GPS wire will trigger Fail-Safe 6Fx.

This is the diagnostics. Look at the wire sequence. Change the combo of any wire to mimic the other. No matter how you modify the 3 wires, 6fx will always set. The fail-safe tune to the FI's default code 6fx is the change you feel.

Now, I ask you... Did the repeating/repeating/repeating machine gun mods to the sensors follow the default code sequence?

I will breakdown the sensor wiring down to 2, so you may watch a permanent ground is in place...
I'll use the 2 wire w/temp sensor. The sensor body is the ground. The diagnostics become easier to understand the 2 wire theory to f/safe. Watch the click to the sensor's own backup code.

Eliminate one wire from the GPS, and the code triggering stays the same, (6fx). Ask yourself now, if a 2 wire theory will smash the, CLUTCH MOD INTO SMITHEREENES!...

We now designed the GPS to use 2 wires and the ground wire is now the unit itself.

Scenario 1. A Wire open = 6fx
Scenario 2. A tre/ohm resistor in between either wire = 6fx.

The evidence is indisputable. The GPS sensor follows the book in the absolute. This proves any mod to any sensor on a computer bike will default to a fail=safe system for either wire signal.
Therefore, the manual is stating, "any" GPS wire will default the system.

You have to ask yourself if the diagnostics are valid and if I am working the theory exactly as the book states...

Yes or No? That is the question back to you, Coug/CAT/PROFESSOR/JC...

Will a 2 wire GPS find the 5th map? Use the manual to find the answer. After all, Suz designed the bike. All I can do is keep them running. Modifying a computer bike via clutch should begin to stand out.... if you follow the book, and have the basics to watch the computer click from analog (sensors) to their default codes in the, (f/safe) ECU.

All it takes is one wire (pick any sensor wire) to trigger the code... Yes or No?

 

[cougar694u]

What the fark are you talking about? According to the FSM, the only 'ping' from the computer is that the red/pink wire has to have +voltage > 0.6v for 3 seconds. Maybe there's something I missed.

A digital ping will NOT be blocked by a resistor.

If the red/pink wire shows +4.38v, the black wires grounded, and the blue wire's open, then the ECU will think it's in 5th gear. Plain and simple, that's what the clutch mod does. If there's a 'ping', then it'll get passed EXACTLY the same as if it was in 5th gear, thus it's a notable hack.

Lets not get off topic here, you said "Why the clutch mod will do nothing." I'm still waiting for the 'Why the clutch mod will do nothing'. I need the "UPS delivers, this thread does not" pic, but it's a redx, so the hax will have to work...

 

[2busa]

Cougar, There is something called a, generic default code. Auto industry uses it (as you know it), motorcycles use it, (as I know it). Motorcycles breath the same atmosphere. In the shop manual, you will find, ZERO 5TH GEAR MENTIONED. A 6 is mentioned, but sorry to say, no 5th is mentioned by design, just the Industry STD - 6Fx = Busa/(6)Locked = 13.5). Come closer... I have on good authority, that a BUSA will default to the industry STD designed, 6fx if the GPS defaults to any gear the GPS throws.

There is one default code, (c31) for 3 individual wires at the GPS. ANY-ALL WIRES DEFAULT TO 1 specific code = 6Fx.

What change you feel (when you installed the aftmkt unit in between the connectors) is 6fx being engaged.

Remember, do not work the analog shift numbers 'in' with the mod. The mod will code your shift window to read the, "CHECK 6FX LIGHT" on the dash. Once the 6 in the dash is locked, any mod will not reboot the 6fx back to the analog 5th. Design says no. INDUSTRIAL STD SAYS NO 5TH IN THE FAIL-SAFE= Only 6Fixed.

Aftermarketeers know there is no 5th, or they would make the kit. 7years out (and counting), no aftmkt 5th kit from anyone you know.... do you. I'll guess a, no on that one.

I'm right there with you, Coug; trying to, Rat-Tat-Tat the ECM combo any way I can. You are looking at the combinations unfold in front of your eyes. I'm rolling out the wiring roads, to-and-from the ECM to the sensor connector down to the base wire of the GPS bake itself.
Take a deep breath... now exhale what the red + wire does to 3.44v (I don't give a flying fug how you add up the volts).... Blow it all out and say, "I Give Up".

The simplicity comes when you ask yourself, "Did a C/mod remove the 6 in the dash?" ...
Beats me if the mod reads 5th on the dash. All the better. Does the computer read 2 in-and-out signals? Please tell me 5 is locked on the dash.

Cougar, slow down. Think it out w/out the analog #'s whatsoever. Follow what the bike does performance wise.

Analog 5th and 6fx do not combine a reformulation inside the GPS. You bled 2 voltage values as if the internal touched inside, so the ECM reads the bleed af 2 signals canceling out each other's, individually signal.

The GPS Mod (if correct) are 2 connected together signals (solder drops?) looking for a 6fx, if I ever saw one.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/brendanp/DSC00039.jpg

 

[CAT3]

2busa... Your talking yourself into a corner, in case the abstract didn't pimp slap you yet! You are confusing yourself with the topic again. Modified GPS discussion, not cutting, hacking, etc. You mentioned above you grounded a ground wire, and that set the 6fx...really? Here is your quote:

!. Ground wire - Removed one wire/ground wire loose at frame = complete circuit disrupted = 6fx.
2. ECU wire pings an ohm/tre (resistance) in between the ECU and sensor assembly- Communication lost = 6fx.
3. GPS unit removed - Gouge unit to "bleed' voltage value to ground (gouge 6th onto 5th gear to read 5th gear? Either way, u f'd up the unit from stock) = 6fx.

Cougar, I've sent 3 wires to 3 different combinations of common failure. 1. I sent a wire to ground. 2. I Tandy'd an ohm resistor to a wire connector, which block the signal ping at the connector, then back to the computer, (never pinging down to GPS resistor at the end of the wire in the bake). 3. A wire not making a connection at the main wire harness and GPG connector, (e.g., R&R engine).

So you grounded a ground wire and set a code. Your a genius. No for real, you actually created a new way to show your ignorance.

Lets go like this. We shouldn't be talking about the deal with removing the GPS (cuz your full of sh!t on that one). Lets focus on modifying the signal the ECM receives. FWIW, you could swap the 1st gear resistance in-line with 6th and the whole entire TRE effect will work. There is no programming existing in the ECM that says the transmission is in "X" gear (except the GPS signal it receives). Since the ECM relies on the GPS to identify the gear thru a select table of pre-set resistance values, the MGPS works. Any other chatter is bullsh!t and you haven't proven anything to rebutt that. You refer to cutting a wire, grounding a ground, etc, stick to the facts please.

 

[dadofthree]

loved the video. You guys should get together somewhere and work through this.

Loved the TREe in the video. Too funny. The same could be argued about the TRE. Some think it works and some think it doesn't. Haven't read any hard testing on this mod either. Maybe I missed it. I'm new.

It's a resistor and unless it's a 0 Ohm resistor it will read some value of resistance unless it has failed. Most open up.

On another thread someone is looking at using a zenner diode mod.

I wonder what the guys running in excess of 200 MPH GPS are doing; or if it's simply a matter of gearing and HP.

The Busa seems limited based on RPMs.

All I'm trying to do tonite is get those fugging Frankenstein bolts out.

 

[2busa]

Dof3 says, "You guys should get together somewhere and work through this." Dad, this be the place to work thru this. We be working hard on book theory first...

CAT, Are you an MMI graduate by any chance? Didi you miss line #1? Re-read exactly what a ground wire (one of many variables) would do in a faulty ground scenario.
When I said, "Sent a ground"... My analogy was... "Sent the ground to a, "Variable(s)" as well as "sending" 2 other wires to their default scenario. My apologies for the communications gap. It's jut a little hiccup. Good call.
Work that theory, CAT!

Would not c31 tell you the ground is faulty? Would not the 6fx flicker in-an-out on the dash? Pick the same 2 wires, 'coming ever so flicking loose of juice, you can taste the 6Fx about to appear in the dash pod. Boom, 1 loose wire (any wire)... I receive all 3 sensor wire fail-safe signals in the ECM, (oh, you are so locked out)...

6Fx proves the ECM recognizes one of 3 variables; the GPS is working improperly by the dash holding 6 in a lock-down (go ahead, find 5th) position.

I'm working the theory to repair/verify system check. You are destroying the theory, plus the part(s) itself, (not knowing the book theory). It is rendered useless, unless!, until solder wears thru, and you're again, counting the 6 (analog) resistances; sending you back to a normal shift display.

I'm trying to see how I can make you look at the steps you keep missing. I know one big one; is your fascination with those analog shift numbers. Stop the measuring, stop the soldering, and the clutch pull. You cannot win a sensor war mod to reprogram 5th. The computer wins by default, each and every time.

You will lose (over and over), thinking you can reprogram the computer (who said that?), as much as you think you can modify, ANY SENSOR from the outside, to re-program the ECM from the inside.

So many clutch mods and not one person can post a, "Yes, I still see 6Fx after I finished my, clu mod. << Theory; THEORY IN THE ABSOLUTE.

YES or No >> Is the 6Fx looking at you after the clutch mod?

 

[2busa]

CAT says, "As well, from another thread, the use of a Power Commander or other tuning tool is garbage cause the ECM is so smart it automatically compensates for changes to the air intake/exhaust or power production of the engine. He has very little techincal understanding of electronics, computer applications in fuel injected engine management etc."

I have to keep an eye on you, CAT. Only "garbage" going on is, YOU... Dumping words in my mouth! I did not bad-mouth the product. The Pc is an excellent tool. EXCELLENT! ..... If you run in the streets,daily drive, Sundays only, then you are washing the tune right out of the, FI. First, I have to make sure you can read the manual. We're not even close to adding extra spray. Later for that.

Again, CAT, you place too, too many words in my mouth. It is true, I do no know the technical names down, I'm terrible at electrics and I'm learning as I go. As for FI eng. mgmnt., I can hold my own... as you shall see in theory. CAT, FI (the Busa) is in open loop and I do know the ECM could care less about the exhaust.... Please don't go there. Later for that to, if you like?

BTW, How are your theories working against mine, or the book's theory is what I meant.
Until we are on the same page, you might be hard pressed to pinpoint a computer problem on a Hayabusa, IMHO.

 

[cougar694u]

The computer works on logic, nothing else. It cannot think for itself, it cannot predict anything. It can only do as it's told based on a number of inputs.

I didn't say there was a 5th map, I didn't say there was anything different about any gear EXCEPT that in 6th gear, there's a lower rev-limiter. I'm not here to argue whether the computer has different maps (be it ignition or fuel) for each gear or not.

I am here to argue that the MGPS will work. The computer's logic is similar to this:

I'm going to use the variable 'vgps' as the signal in volts that the ECU reads from the GPS (I know this is not exactly how it works, so this is for demonstration purposes).

<div id="CODEHEAD">CODE[/Quote]<div id="CODE">If vgps < 0.6v for 3 seconds then
troublecode = c31
elseif vgps > 1.7 and vgps < 1.9 then
revlimit = 10900
elseif vgps > 2.15 and vgps < 2.35 then
revlimit = 10900
elseif vgps > 2.9 and vgps < 3.1 then
revlimit = 10900
elseif vgps > 3.5 and vgps < 3.9 then
revlimit = 10900
elseif vgps > 4.2 and vgps < 4.5 then
revlimit = 10900
elseif vgps > 4.6 and vgps < 4.8 then
revlimit = 10500
elseif vgps > 4.8 then
gear <> 6
end if

if [blackwirecircuit] = open then
troublecode = c31
end if

if [bluewirecircuit] = open then
neutral = false
elseif [bluewirecircuit] = closed and vgps > 4.8 then
neutral = true
elseif [bluewirecircuit] = closed and vgps < 4.8 then
troublecode = c31
end if[/Quote]

Now, if the vgps signal is 3.05v, then the ECU will set the revlimiter to the factory setting.

If the vgps signal is 4.7, then the ECU will set the revlimiter to 10500.

If the vgps signal is 4.3, then it will go back to the 10900 factory rev limiter.

The MGPS does this exact thing, and the values are all analog. If, for some reason, the ECU uses some frequency ping as a 'tamper proof' thing to test the GPS, it will pass the test. If, for some reason, the ECU uses some digital ping as a 'tamper proof' thing to test the GPS, it will pass the test.

Why will it pass? Because it's just like the shaft resting on the land for gear 5.

Why will it 'fool' the ECU? Because it's just like the shaft resting on the land for gear 5.

(2busa @ Jan. 24 2007,19:44) Analog 5th and 6fx do not combine a reformulation inside the GPS. You bled 2 voltage values as if the internal touched inside, so the ECM reads the bleed af 2 signals canceling out each other's, individually signal.

The GPS Mod (if correct) are 2 connected together signals (solder drops?) looking for a 6fx, if I ever saw one.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/brendanp/DSC00039.jpg

You are correct here. The combination of the two resistances will yield 4.68k Ohms, which will result in 4.22v. The GPS is still there (evident from the closed circuit of the black wire); not in neutral (evident from the open blue wire); and above 0.6v (taken from the FSM). A digital ping will pass through, and a frequency ping will pass through. Going by voltage actually measured in 5th gear (4.38v), the 4.22v is less than 4% off (3.791% to be more exact), which would be in spec, since the internals of the motor (shaft + oil + lands, etc) provide resistance. I would guess typical tolerance is 5%, which would give a window of +/- 0.219v from the measured 4.38v.

 

[2busa]

Cougar, What didi I tell you... What did I tell you! Drop the voltage measurements already. Watch the bike re-code to the 6Fx. Ride the bike. Do not measure the bike...

Un-clip = Ride within feet. That is correct... You will tell within a few feet (or the release of the clutch is enough for me), you should fell the difference, or you're no tune-up guy, let alone a tuner.

You want to tune every flucking little bit out of the (stock) bike before you install a Pc to fine tune the top end. There are so many sensors to work the tune, you can't just start unplugging them. There are a few combinations that work and a few that don't. Figure out the theory, and let the fuel management inside (the ECM) tell you if you felt the difference.
I'm the pure stock guy. I address fuel management with the f/safe maps...

Re-clip = Ride the change to tell the difference?

We are anything but arguing. I'm learning the early ECM codes in the shop manual (1999-2001). I am formulating a pattern of bike (Busa) against bike (13.5) is all I'm doing. If the book theory holds any validity, 'the 5th assumed' should not work. The c31 says 6 is what will continually pop up.
I have no Idea why you would chase 5th, when c31 is the tuning package.

I never tried the mod, never owned a Busa. If the 6Fx theory in the book is correct or the Clu/5th, can fool the ECM this is where you find the answer.... Fug if I know?

Without the clu/mod Q: "Is the 6Fx still locked-down after the mod?" My theory to work the 5th vs 6Fx is at a standstill....

 

[cougar694u]

(2busa @ Jan. 25 2007,13:39) Cougar, What didi I tell you... What did I tell you! Drop the voltage measurements already.

No, I'm showing you by simple calculations what the ECU sees with the MGPS to prove that it will work.

If no 'readings' are out of spec, how does the ECU know you modified anything? Simple, it doesn't.

 

[CAT3]

What part of CA are you in 2busa? We might have to compromise and meet somewhere like Lake Havasau or something...to hash this crap out. I personally think your talking out the side of your neck on the MGPS "theory" and related chatter.

You will lose (over and over), thinking you can reprogram the computer (who said that?), as much as you think you can modify, ANY SENSOR from the outside, to re-program the ECM from the inside.


Lose on reprogramming the computer? Ok. How about I email you a few files for computers I have tuned, altering how/what they see OR what they do when the see xxxx parameter? A modified sensor works, if done properly, and the computer can be programmed to avoid confusion b/w stock and modified sensors. Anyway, graduate from MMI? Nope, but working towards something similar.

 

[2busa]

Cougar says, "... how does the ECU know you modified anything? Simple, it doesn't."

There has to be at least on member who modded their clutch. The theory is now in limbo without a member to type a yes or a no to answer your question, Cougar.

 

[cougar694u]

So if the ECU doesn't know you modified anything, how's it going to operate?

 

[BA BUSA]

 

[2busa]

CAT, The conversation remains here. We all have the book to walk thru the theory. We're not talking auto OBD O-Bla-Da, Life goes on, 'On/Off'... Da-da-da-da-da, 6Fx (life) goes on.

The theory is that exact in function, I'm waiting for the (yes or no) answer. Today's bike diagnostics is deeply embedded with the computer and FI troubleshooting. You will need the ECM theory to diagnose the fuel and spark parameters.

 

[dadofthree]

I agree the two or three of you should meet at a location where a dyno is available. Or I guess you could meet somewhere with a nice stretch of road and a GPS and measure the stock bike Max MPH, TRE mod Max MPH, and 2busa mod Max MPH. It would be best on the dyno because some of the varibles like head wind and tail wind would be out.

 

[cougar694u]

I talked to the local dyno owner a few minutes ago and he's interested to see how the 'unplugged GPS mod' does.

$40 for the pulls to test it out. Anyone want to chip in to help fund this? I could also do the 10k resistor mod (from the zener diode thread), and if I had the zener diode, I could also test it.

Hell, I may just do it on my own, but I need the zener diode.

**EDIT**
Radio shack has a three pack for $1.29 and fry's has 1 for $0.49. The resistors are cheap, as well.

Anyone want to help out? I have a spare GPS, but I don't particularly want to tear apart my clutch, maybe another time. Maybe I can make the circuit to show the combined resistance and start it in gear and test on the dyno, as well.