Adaptation has not stopped, and completly agree we continue to change and will do so, along with all the other creatures on earth.
Its the jumping and changing of speices which is missing?
Single topic debate #2
- Thread starter Projekt
- Start date
Its the jumping and changing of speices which is missing?
Ok Ok OK this has gone on long enough. I will give you the truth and proof . So here we go........................................................................................
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...............And in a nut shell that is how it started ..Thank you for your time . Glad i could be of service
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Well said.Ok Ok OK this has gone on long enough. I will give you the truth and proof . So here we go........................................................................................
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...............And in a nut shell that is how it started ..Thank you for your time . Glad i could be of service
dudewizr
Registered
I choose creation because
1. That is what the Bible states.
I beleive God is the author of this book which is unlike any other book written. I say it is unlike any other book written because of it's unity, indestructibility and it's universal influence. Other things that set it apart from any other writing are its historical, scientific and prophetical accuracies. Finally it's greatest single proof of its supernaturalness is its marvelous, life-transforming power!
Man could not write the Bible if he would. Man would not write the Bible if he could. Because of the bad things said about good people and good things said about bad people. Man would never be able to write about certain doctrines such as:
1. the doctrine of eternal hell! Rev. 14:10-11
2. the doctrine of man's total helplessness! Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 7:18
3. the doctrine of final judgement upon saved and unsaved. 1 Cor. 3:9-15; Rev. 20: 11-15
FYI: did you know that only 1/2 of 1% of all books published survive 7 years. 80% of all books are forgotten in one year. Scripture distribution has increased over 800% since 1960!
I guess a hole bunch of us have it wrong!
1. That is what the Bible states.
I beleive God is the author of this book which is unlike any other book written. I say it is unlike any other book written because of it's unity, indestructibility and it's universal influence. Other things that set it apart from any other writing are its historical, scientific and prophetical accuracies. Finally it's greatest single proof of its supernaturalness is its marvelous, life-transforming power!
Man could not write the Bible if he would. Man would not write the Bible if he could. Because of the bad things said about good people and good things said about bad people. Man would never be able to write about certain doctrines such as:
1. the doctrine of eternal hell! Rev. 14:10-11
2. the doctrine of man's total helplessness! Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 7:18
3. the doctrine of final judgement upon saved and unsaved. 1 Cor. 3:9-15; Rev. 20: 11-15
FYI: did you know that only 1/2 of 1% of all books published survive 7 years. 80% of all books are forgotten in one year. Scripture distribution has increased over 800% since 1960!
I guess a hole bunch of us have it wrong!
Just a thought....The problem is that it's human nature to look for mysterious and spooky where there is none. To look for a way to feel important, special, unique. It's the Human fear of death that most people cannot deal with that creates the window for a "Religion".
Mormans, Christians, Scientoligists, Islam, on and on... All Nice stories told to the followers so they could sleep well at night, remain under control, and have an established set of rules (RE-written through time to fit the current need), AVOID responsibility for your own actions, and finally to ease the fear of death.
THIS IS WHY you have such huge numbers clinging and wanting to believe. NOBODY wants to die, they want to believe that THEY WILL GO ON LIVING.
Hell, organized religion exists to help folks be less afraid of their own impending death. It's EASY to prey on this kind of fear, it's a deep seated and compelling fear.
So WWJD, Yeah I believe quite simply that the VAST Majority of those CLAIMING to be Christians or whatever, tend to be little more than frightened folks looking for some answers to ease their fear. No real faith, just WISHING that they believed.
Reasons folks flock...
-Fear of death.
-Desire to be free of responsibility.
-Desire to belong to SOMETHING.
-Need to feel superior to "THOSE EVIL PEOPLE".
-Desire to feel Special, HELL some of ya actually say "I'm one of 'GODS' Childeren" (careful remember what happened to the last guy.)
-Safety, The Church has a lot of power, more so in the past but still a pretty good survival method is to claim Faith when they light up them stakes...
-Force feeding from Childhood, this is where we need warning labels on the Bible and other religious texts.
Warning Label
Christianity and God's promise of life eternal with God after death stands on one thing: The Deity of Jesus Christ (that He was who He said He was). Bottom line, Jesus said He was the "only" Son of God, literally God in the flesh (the third person of the Trinity), He was crucified for our sins, and He arose from the dead after three days in the grave (only world religion figure to ever do that by the way). Not to mention all of the miracles He performed. We know he existed because historical authors wrote more about Christ than any other single person in history. Question is, do you believe He was God's Son? That is what it is all about, not whether or not we can debate how we feel about the Holy Bible. The Bible requires a life time of study to even glean the scope of its full message, and even then we can't take it all in. So my point is simple, it isn't about how you feel about the Bible, it is about how you feel about Jesus Christ. That is what we all will stand before God someday and give an account for, whether we accepted Jesus or rejected Him.
By the way, to me it takes more faith to believe in Evolution of man (macro-evolution) than it does to believe in Creation.
Just my .02 Bros!.... Peace!
P.
Good Information, In My Opinion:
The Deity of Christ
by Don Closson
Don Closson received the B.S. in education from Southern Illinois University, the M.S. in educational administration from Illinois State University, and the M.A. in Biblical Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. He served as a public school teacher and administrator before joining Probe Ministries as a research associate in the field of education. He is the general editor of Kids, Classrooms, and Contemporary Education.
Introduction
I recently received a letter from someone who argues that there is only one God, and that He is called many names and worshiped by many different people who hold to many different faiths. This kind of thinking about God is common today, but its popularity does not reduce the intellectual problems that may accompany it. For instance, does this notion of god include the god of the Aztecs who required child sacrifice? What about the warrior gods of Norse mythology: Odin, Thor, and Loki? How does the Mormon belief that we can all become Gods if we join their organization and conform to their system of good works fit into this theological framework? Even John Hick, an influential religious pluralist, believes that only some of the world's great religions qualify as having a valid view of God. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism are valid, but Satanism and the religions of the Waco, Texas, variety are not. Belief that all religious systems worship one God raises difficult questions when we see how different groups portray God and seek to describe how we are to relate to Him.
The issue becomes even more acute when one religious tradition claims that God took on flesh becoming a man and walked on the earth. The Christian tradition has claimed for almost two thousand years that God did just that. The Gospel of John proclaims that, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John is, of course, talking about Jesus, and this claim presents an interesting challenge for a religious pluralist. If what John and the rest of the New Testament writers claim about Jesus is true, then we literally have God in the flesh walking with and teaching a small band of disciples. If Jesus was God incarnate as He walked the earth, we have a first hand account of what God is like in the biblical record. Truth claims about God that counter those given in the Bible must then be discounted. In other words, if Jesus was God in the flesh during His time on earth, other religious texts or traditions are wrong when they teach about God or about knowing God in ways that contradict the biblical record.
In this essay we will consider the evidence for the deity of Christ. Christianity's truth claims are dependent on this central teaching, and once accepted, this claim reduces greatly the viability of religious pluralism, of treating all religious beliefs as equally true. For if God truly became flesh and spoke directly to His disciples about such things as sin, redemption, a final judgment, false religions and true worship, then we have the God of the universe expressing intolerance towards other religious claims- -specifically claims that discount the reality of sin and remove the need for redemption or the reality of a final judgment. Some might not agree with God's religious intolerance, but then again, disagreeing with God is what the Bible calls sin.
Rather than begin with a response to attacks on Christ's deity by modern critics like the Jesus Seminar or New Age gnostics, our discussion will begin with Jesus' own self-consciousness, in other words, what did Jesus say and think about himself. From there we will consider the teachings of the Apostles and the early church. My goal is to establish that from its inception, Christianity has taught and believed that Jesus was God in the flesh, and that this belief was the result of the very words that Jesus spoke concerning His own essence.
Christ's Self-Perception
As we begin to examine evidence that supports the claim that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh or God incarnate, a good starting point is Jesus' own self concept. It must first be admitted that Jesus never defines His place in the Trinity in theological language. However, He made many statements about himself that would be not only inappropriate, but blasphemous if He was not God in the flesh. It is important to remember that Jesus' life was not spent doing theology or thinking and writing about theological issues. Instead, His life was focused on relationships, first with His disciples, and then with the Jewish people. The purpose of these relationships was to engender in these people a belief in Jesus as their savior or Messiah, as their only source of salvation. Jesus told the Pharisees, the Jewish religious leaders of His day, that they would die in their sins if they did not believe that He was who He claimed to be (John 8:24). And to one Pharisee, Nicodemus, Jesus said, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
Millard Erickson, in his book Christian Theology, does a nice job of laying out evidence that Jesus considered himself equal in essence with God.(1) Unless He was God, it would have been highly inappropriate for Jesus to say, as He does in Matthew 13:41, that both the angels and the kingdom are His. Elsewhere, angels are called "the angels of God" (Luke 12:8 9; 15:10) and the phrase Kingdom of God is found throughout the Scriptures. But Jesus says, "The Son of man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers" (Matt. 13:41).
When the paralytic in Mark 2:5 was lowered through the roof by his friends, Jesus' first response was to say that the man's sins were forgiven. The scribes knew the implications of this statement, for only God could forgive sin. Their remarks clearly show that they understood Jesus to be exercising a divine privilege. Jesus had a wonderful opportunity to set the record straight here by denying that He had the authority to do what only God can do. Instead, His response only reinforces His claim to divinity. Jesus says, "Why do you question thus in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, Rise, take up your pallet and walk'?" To confirm His authority to forgive sins, Jesus enabled the man to pick up his pallet and go home.
Two other areas that Jesus claimed authority over was the judging of sin and the observance of the Sabbath. Both were considered God's prerogative by the Jews. In John 5:22-23 Jesus says, "The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." Jesus also claimed authority to change man's relationship to the Sabbath. Honoring the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments, and the Jews had been given strict instructions on how to observe it. In the book of Numbers, Moses is told by God to stone to death a man who collects wood on the Sabbath. However, in Matthew 12:8 Jesus says that "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
These examples show that Jesus made claims and performed miracles that reveal a self awareness of His own divinity. In our next section, we will continue in this vein.
Christ's Self-Perception, Part 2
At this point in our discussion we will offer even more examples of Jesus' self knowledge of His essential equality with God.
A number of comments that Jesus made about His relationship with the Father would be unusual if Jesus did not consider himself equal in essence with God. In John 10:30 He says that to see Him is to see the Father. Later in John 14:7-9 He adds that to know Him is to know the Father. Jesus also claimed to have existed prior to His incarnation on earth. In John 8:58 He says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." Some believe that the words used here by Jesus constitute His strongest claim to deity. According to the Expositors Bible Commentary this passage might more literally be translated, "Before Abraham came into being, I continuously existed."
The Jews recognized the phrase "I am" as one referring to God because God used it (1) to describe himself when He commissioned Moses to demand the release of His people from Pharaoh (Exodus 3:14), and (2) to identifyhimself in the theistic proclamations in the second half of Isaiah. Jesus also declares that His work is coterminous with the Father. He proclaims that "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23). The Jews hearing Jesus understood the nature of these claims. After His comment about pre-existing Abraham, they immediately picked up stones to kill Him for blasphemy because they understood that He had declared himself God.
In Jesus' trial He makes a clear declaration of who He is. The Jews argued before Pilate in John 19:7, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God." Matthew 26 records that at Jesus' trial, the high priest tells Jesus, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."Jesus replies, "You have said it yourself, . . . But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." This would have been a wonderful opportunity for Jesus to save himself by clearing up any misconceptions concerning His relationship with the Father. Instead, He places himself in a position of equality and of unique power and authority. Again, the Jews understand what Jesus is saying. The high priest proclaims, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy." He calls for a vote of the council, and they demand His death (Matt. 26:65-66).
Another indicator of how Jesus perceived himself is in His use of Old Testament Scripture and the way He made His own proclamations of truth. In a number of cases, Jesus began a sentence with "You have heard that it was said, . . . but I say to you. . . ." (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28). Jesus was giving His words the same authority as the Scriptures. Even the prophets, when speaking for God, would begin their statements with: "The word of the Lord came to me," but Jesus begins with: "I say to you."
There are other indications of how Jesus saw himself. For example, Christ's claim to have authority over life itself in John 5:21 and 11:25, and His use of the self referential "Son of God" title point to unique power and authority and His essential equality with God.
The Apostles' Teaching
We will turn now to look at what Jesus' followers said of Him. The Gospel of John begins with a remarkable declaration of both Christ's deity and full humanity. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." Later in verse fourteen John remarks that this "Word" became flesh and walked among them and points to Jesus as this "Word" become flesh. What did John mean by this remarkable passage?
The first phrase might literally be translated: "When the beginning began, the Word was already there." In other words, the "Word" co- existed with God and predates time and creation. The second phrase "The Word was with God" indicates both equality and distinction of identity. A more literal translation might be "face to face with God," implying personality and relational coexistence. Some groups, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, make a great deal of the fact that the word "God" in the third phrase "The Word was God" lacks an article. This, they argue, allows the noun God to be translated as an indefinite noun, perhaps referring to "a God" but not "the" almighty God.
Actually, the lack of an article for the noun makes the case for the deity of the "Word" more clearly. The Greek phrase, theos en ho logos describes the nature of the "Word," not the nature of God. The article ho before the word logos shows that the sentence describes the nature of the Word; He is of the same nature and essence as the noun in the predicate; that is, the Word is divine. It is interesting to note that verses 6, 12, 13, and 18 of the same chapter refer unambiguously to God the Father and use an anarthrous noun, i.e., a noun without the article.(2) Yet strangely the Jehovah's Witnesses do not dispute the meaning of these passages.
The author of Hebrews writes plainly of Christ's deity. The first chapter states that, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word." The passage also states that Jesus is not an angel nor is He just a priest. In Colossians 1:15 Paul adds that, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." Although Paul clearly attributes godlike qualities to Jesus, the use of the word firstborn often causes confusion. The word can be a reference to priority in time or supremacy in rank. Since Jesus is described as the Creator of all things, the notion of supremacy seems more appropriate. Philippians 2:5-11 also talks of Jesus existing in the form of God. The Greek term used for form is morphe, denoting an outward manifestation of an inner essence.
Mention should also be made of the use by New Testament writers of the word Lord for Jesus. The same Greek word was used in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint, as the translated word for the Hebrew words Yahweh and Adonai, two special names given to God the Father. The Apostles meant to apply the highest sense of this term when referring to Jesus.
The Early Church
Thus far we have been examining the Christian claim of Christ's divinity, first considering Jesus' own self-concept and then the thoughts of those who wrote the New Testament. It is not within the scope of this essay to argue that the words attributed to Jesus by the writers of the New Testament are indeed His. Instead, we have argued that the words attributed to Jesus do claim an essential equality with God the Father. The traditional view of the Christian faith has been that God has revealed himself to us as three separate persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--who shared a common essence.
Belief in Jesus' essential equality with God the Father was communicated by the Apostles to the church fathers to whom they handed the task of leading the church. Even though these early leaders often struggled with how to describe the notion of the Trinity with theological accuracy, they knew that their faith was in a person who was both man and God.
Clement of Rome is a good example of this faith. Writing to the church at Corinth Clement implies Jesus' equality with God the Father when he says "Have we not one God, and one Christ and one Spirit of grace poured upon us." Later, in his second letter, Clement tells his readers to "think of Jesus as of God , as the judge of the living and dead." Clement also wrote of Jesus as the preexistent Son of God; in other words, Christ existed before He took on human flesh. Ignatius of Antioch spoke of Christ's nature in his letter to the Ephesians, "There is only one physician, of flesh and of spirit, generate and ingenerate, God in man, life in death, Son of Mary and Son of God." A little later, Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. A.D. 140-202.) had to stress the humanity of Christ because of Gnostic heresy that argued that Jesus was only a divine emanation. Irenaeus wrote, "There is therefore . . . one God the Father, and one Christ Jesus our Lord, who . . . gathered together all things in himself. But in every respect, too, he is man, the formation of God: and thus he took up man into himself, the invisible becoming visible, the incomprehensible being made comprehensible, the impassible becoming capable of suffering, and the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in himself" (Against Heresies III, 16).
During the same time period, Tertullian of Carthage (ca. A.D. 155-240) wrote of Christ's nature that "what is born in the flesh is flesh and what is born in the Spirit is spirit. Flesh does not become spirit nor spirit flesh. Evidently they can (both) be in one (person). Of these Jesus is composed, of flesh as man and of spirit as God" (Against Praxeas, 14). Later he added, "We see His double state, not intermixed but conjoined in one person, Jesus, God and man" (Against Praxeas, 27).
By A.D. 325 the church had begun to systematize Christianity's response to various heretical views of Christ. The Nicene Creed stated, "We believe in God the Father All-sovereign, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all the ages, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not created, of one substance with the Father, through whom all things came into being."(3)
The belief in Jesus Christ being of the same essence as God the Father began with Jesus himself, was taught to His Apostles, who in turn handed down this belief to the early church Fathers and apologists. Christ's deity is the foundation upon which the Christian faith rests.
Notes 1. Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House, 1985), pp. 684-90. 2. Merrill C. Tenney, The Expositors Bible Commentary, vol. 9 (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan Publishing House, 1981), pp. 28-29. 3. Henry Bettenson, ed., Documents of the Christian Church (New York: Oxford University Press, 1967), p. 26.
APPENDIX
Question to ponder: Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Answer:
1. God the Father - Acts 2:24, 3:15, 5:30 1st Cor. 6:14 Gal. 1:1
2. The Holy Spirit - Rom. 1:1, 8:11
3. Jesus Himself - John 2:19, 10, 17-18
The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ
A Scripture Study of selected verses
on the eternal nature of Jesus of Nazareth
assembled by Kerry Livgren
Jesus' "godhood" is one of the essential basic doctrines of Christian belief. This is by no means an exhaustive study of the subject, but these verses of scripture from Old and New Testaments bear witness to this (unarguable) doctrine. Scripture itself teaches it better than any man could argue it. Many of these verses, when meditated upon, speak more clearly on this subject than they may at first reading.
In some cases I have grouped verses from OT and NT to be read together, emphasizing the character and identity of Christ. I assembled this list together so that Christians might have a handy reference should they need to defend their belief in the deity of Christ, at their doorstep (as is often the case), or otherwise.
(Italics in this color have been placed here by me for emphasis. I have included some brief comments below certain verses)
Psalm:49:7 No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him-- ( if Jesus were only a man, even a good man, his sacrifice was in vain and we would still be in our sins)
Jn.8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he , you will indeed die in your sins."
(this is why it is so crucial that we have a correct and full understanding of who Jesus really was.)
(Isa.43:10) "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he . Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
(God lays the groundwork here that there exists but one God.)
Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
(The Word (Logos) was both with God and was God. The Word and the Creator are one and the same)
Jn.1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(it is made clear here that Jesus of Nazareth is the incarnate Word)
Jn.10:37 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Col. 1:15 He (speaking of Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him
(This passage shows that Jesus is the Creator. If Jesus, the Logos, is not Deity then there are two Creators and two Gods)
Rev. 4:11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
Lk.22:70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Lk.6:5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
(there can be but one Lord of the Sabbath- the Eternal God)
Ac.2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Jn.10:30 I and the Father are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
(The teachers of Israel understood clearly what Jesus was claiming)
Jn.8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am! "
(a clear statement of His nature, even using the Name that the Jewish leaders understood all too well)
Jn.10:38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Jn.12:45 When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.
Jn.14:7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Jn.14:8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jn.16:15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
(God will not share His glory with another)
Mt.16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Ro.1:4 ... and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro.9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Col.1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(Firstborn {prototokos} is a Greek term meaning pre-eminent one, or inheritor. It cannot mean otherwise for He could not have created Himself)
Col.2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
(what could be clearer)
1Ti.3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
1Ti.6:15 ...which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Heb.1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
(This disarms the argument that Christ was an angel)
Rev.19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Mic.5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times". (or days of eternity)
Ro.10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
(Contemplate the full meaning of confessing that Jesus is Lord, believe it in faith and you will be saved)
1Co.8:6 ...yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Eph.4:5 ...one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Jn.3:31 "The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
(None but God Almighty is above all...)
Phil. 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(read the above verses from Phillipians keeping these below from Isaiah in mind)
Is.42:8 "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.
Is.45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Jn.13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Ac.2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Heb. 7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
Ro.14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Col.1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Mt.8:27 The men were amazed and asked, "What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!"
Mk.1:27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching--and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him."
(The preceding verses show that He is Lord of nature, and the spirits knew who He was, and feared the abyss - He was in authority over them)
Jn.17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.
(notice-"the name you gave Me", and the statement: "as we are one")
1Jn.4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
(Immanuel literally translated: God with us!)
Isa.9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Pr.9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
Mk.1:24 "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"
Lu.1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Jn.6:69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."
Isa. 44:6 "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Jehovah alone is "first and last"
Rev.1: 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev. 2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
DO NOT FAIL TO NOTICE: Who is first and last?
Either Jesus is God or there are two firsts and two lasts!
Here it is again lest there be any doubt...
Rev. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. --- 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
At this point I am inserting an excellent article by Don Closson (Probe Ministries) on the Deity of Christ. He takes a slightly different approach to the subject, but it is very thoughtful and well done. The original link is: LeaderU.com
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The Deity of Christ
by Don Closson
Don Closson received the B.S. in education from Southern Illinois University, the M.S. in educational administration from Illinois State University, and the M.A. in Biblical Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. He served as a public school teacher and administrator before joining Probe Ministries as a research associate in the field of education. He is the general editor of Kids, Classrooms, and Contemporary Education.
Introduction
I recently received a letter from someone who argues that there is only one God, and that He is called many names and worshiped by many different people who hold to many different faiths. This kind of thinking about God is common today, but its popularity does not reduce the intellectual problems that may accompany it. For instance, does this notion of god include the god of the Aztecs who required child sacrifice? What about the warrior gods of Norse mythology: Odin, Thor, and Loki? How does the Mormon belief that we can all become Gods if we join their organization and conform to their system of good works fit into this theological framework? Even John Hick, an influential religious pluralist, believes that only some of the world's great religions qualify as having a valid view of God. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism are valid, but Satanism and the religions of the Waco, Texas, variety are not. Belief that all religious systems worship one God raises difficult questions when we see how different groups portray God and seek to describe how we are to relate to Him.
The issue becomes even more acute when one religious tradition claims that God took on flesh becoming a man and walked on the earth. The Christian tradition has claimed for almost two thousand years that God did just that. The Gospel of John proclaims that, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John is, of course, talking about Jesus, and this claim presents an interesting challenge for a religious pluralist. If what John and the rest of the New Testament writers claim about Jesus is true, then we literally have God in the flesh walking with and teaching a small band of disciples. If Jesus was God incarnate as He walked the earth, we have a first hand account of what God is like in the biblical record. Truth claims about God that counter those given in the Bible must then be discounted. In other words, if Jesus was God in the flesh during His time on earth, other religious texts or traditions are wrong when they teach about God or about knowing God in ways that contradict the biblical record.
In this essay we will consider the evidence for the deity of Christ. Christianity's truth claims are dependent on this central teaching, and once accepted, this claim reduces greatly the viability of religious pluralism, of treating all religious beliefs as equally true. For if God truly became flesh and spoke directly to His disciples about such things as sin, redemption, a final judgment, false religions and true worship, then we have the God of the universe expressing intolerance towards other religious claims- -specifically claims that discount the reality of sin and remove the need for redemption or the reality of a final judgment. Some might not agree with God's religious intolerance, but then again, disagreeing with God is what the Bible calls sin.
Rather than begin with a response to attacks on Christ's deity by modern critics like the Jesus Seminar or New Age gnostics, our discussion will begin with Jesus' own self-consciousness, in other words, what did Jesus say and think about himself. From there we will consider the teachings of the Apostles and the early church. My goal is to establish that from its inception, Christianity has taught and believed that Jesus was God in the flesh, and that this belief was the result of the very words that Jesus spoke concerning His own essence.
Christ's Self-Perception
As we begin to examine evidence that supports the claim that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh or God incarnate, a good starting point is Jesus' own self concept. It must first be admitted that Jesus never defines His place in the Trinity in theological language. However, He made many statements about himself that would be not only inappropriate, but blasphemous if He was not God in the flesh. It is important to remember that Jesus' life was not spent doing theology or thinking and writing about theological issues. Instead, His life was focused on relationships, first with His disciples, and then with the Jewish people. The purpose of these relationships was to engender in these people a belief in Jesus as their savior or Messiah, as their only source of salvation. Jesus told the Pharisees, the Jewish religious leaders of His day, that they would die in their sins if they did not believe that He was who He claimed to be (John 8:24). And to one Pharisee, Nicodemus, Jesus said, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
Millard Erickson, in his book Christian Theology, does a nice job of laying out evidence that Jesus considered himself equal in essence with God.(1) Unless He was God, it would have been highly inappropriate for Jesus to say, as He does in Matthew 13:41, that both the angels and the kingdom are His. Elsewhere, angels are called "the angels of God" (Luke 12:8 9; 15:10) and the phrase Kingdom of God is found throughout the Scriptures. But Jesus says, "The Son of man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers" (Matt. 13:41).
When the paralytic in Mark 2:5 was lowered through the roof by his friends, Jesus' first response was to say that the man's sins were forgiven. The scribes knew the implications of this statement, for only God could forgive sin. Their remarks clearly show that they understood Jesus to be exercising a divine privilege. Jesus had a wonderful opportunity to set the record straight here by denying that He had the authority to do what only God can do. Instead, His response only reinforces His claim to divinity. Jesus says, "Why do you question thus in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, Rise, take up your pallet and walk'?" To confirm His authority to forgive sins, Jesus enabled the man to pick up his pallet and go home.
Two other areas that Jesus claimed authority over was the judging of sin and the observance of the Sabbath. Both were considered God's prerogative by the Jews. In John 5:22-23 Jesus says, "The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." Jesus also claimed authority to change man's relationship to the Sabbath. Honoring the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments, and the Jews had been given strict instructions on how to observe it. In the book of Numbers, Moses is told by God to stone to death a man who collects wood on the Sabbath. However, in Matthew 12:8 Jesus says that "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
These examples show that Jesus made claims and performed miracles that reveal a self awareness of His own divinity. In our next section, we will continue in this vein.
Christ's Self-Perception, Part 2
At this point in our discussion we will offer even more examples of Jesus' self knowledge of His essential equality with God.
A number of comments that Jesus made about His relationship with the Father would be unusual if Jesus did not consider himself equal in essence with God. In John 10:30 He says that to see Him is to see the Father. Later in John 14:7-9 He adds that to know Him is to know the Father. Jesus also claimed to have existed prior to His incarnation on earth. In John 8:58 He says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." Some believe that the words used here by Jesus constitute His strongest claim to deity. According to the Expositors Bible Commentary this passage might more literally be translated, "Before Abraham came into being, I continuously existed."
The Jews recognized the phrase "I am" as one referring to God because God used it (1) to describe himself when He commissioned Moses to demand the release of His people from Pharaoh (Exodus 3:14), and (2) to identifyhimself in the theistic proclamations in the second half of Isaiah. Jesus also declares that His work is coterminous with the Father. He proclaims that "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23). The Jews hearing Jesus understood the nature of these claims. After His comment about pre-existing Abraham, they immediately picked up stones to kill Him for blasphemy because they understood that He had declared himself God.
In Jesus' trial He makes a clear declaration of who He is. The Jews argued before Pilate in John 19:7, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God." Matthew 26 records that at Jesus' trial, the high priest tells Jesus, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."Jesus replies, "You have said it yourself, . . . But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." This would have been a wonderful opportunity for Jesus to save himself by clearing up any misconceptions concerning His relationship with the Father. Instead, He places himself in a position of equality and of unique power and authority. Again, the Jews understand what Jesus is saying. The high priest proclaims, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy." He calls for a vote of the council, and they demand His death (Matt. 26:65-66).
Another indicator of how Jesus perceived himself is in His use of Old Testament Scripture and the way He made His own proclamations of truth. In a number of cases, Jesus began a sentence with "You have heard that it was said, . . . but I say to you. . . ." (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28). Jesus was giving His words the same authority as the Scriptures. Even the prophets, when speaking for God, would begin their statements with: "The word of the Lord came to me," but Jesus begins with: "I say to you."
There are other indications of how Jesus saw himself. For example, Christ's claim to have authority over life itself in John 5:21 and 11:25, and His use of the self referential "Son of God" title point to unique power and authority and His essential equality with God.
The Apostles' Teaching
We will turn now to look at what Jesus' followers said of Him. The Gospel of John begins with a remarkable declaration of both Christ's deity and full humanity. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." Later in verse fourteen John remarks that this "Word" became flesh and walked among them and points to Jesus as this "Word" become flesh. What did John mean by this remarkable passage?
The first phrase might literally be translated: "When the beginning began, the Word was already there." In other words, the "Word" co- existed with God and predates time and creation. The second phrase "The Word was with God" indicates both equality and distinction of identity. A more literal translation might be "face to face with God," implying personality and relational coexistence. Some groups, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, make a great deal of the fact that the word "God" in the third phrase "The Word was God" lacks an article. This, they argue, allows the noun God to be translated as an indefinite noun, perhaps referring to "a God" but not "the" almighty God.
Actually, the lack of an article for the noun makes the case for the deity of the "Word" more clearly. The Greek phrase, theos en ho logos describes the nature of the "Word," not the nature of God. The article ho before the word logos shows that the sentence describes the nature of the Word; He is of the same nature and essence as the noun in the predicate; that is, the Word is divine. It is interesting to note that verses 6, 12, 13, and 18 of the same chapter refer unambiguously to God the Father and use an anarthrous noun, i.e., a noun without the article.(2) Yet strangely the Jehovah's Witnesses do not dispute the meaning of these passages.
The author of Hebrews writes plainly of Christ's deity. The first chapter states that, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word." The passage also states that Jesus is not an angel nor is He just a priest. In Colossians 1:15 Paul adds that, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." Although Paul clearly attributes godlike qualities to Jesus, the use of the word firstborn often causes confusion. The word can be a reference to priority in time or supremacy in rank. Since Jesus is described as the Creator of all things, the notion of supremacy seems more appropriate. Philippians 2:5-11 also talks of Jesus existing in the form of God. The Greek term used for form is morphe, denoting an outward manifestation of an inner essence.
Mention should also be made of the use by New Testament writers of the word Lord for Jesus. The same Greek word was used in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint, as the translated word for the Hebrew words Yahweh and Adonai, two special names given to God the Father. The Apostles meant to apply the highest sense of this term when referring to Jesus.
The Early Church
Thus far we have been examining the Christian claim of Christ's divinity, first considering Jesus' own self-concept and then the thoughts of those who wrote the New Testament. It is not within the scope of this essay to argue that the words attributed to Jesus by the writers of the New Testament are indeed His. Instead, we have argued that the words attributed to Jesus do claim an essential equality with God the Father. The traditional view of the Christian faith has been that God has revealed himself to us as three separate persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--who shared a common essence.
Belief in Jesus' essential equality with God the Father was communicated by the Apostles to the church fathers to whom they handed the task of leading the church. Even though these early leaders often struggled with how to describe the notion of the Trinity with theological accuracy, they knew that their faith was in a person who was both man and God.
Clement of Rome is a good example of this faith. Writing to the church at Corinth Clement implies Jesus' equality with God the Father when he says "Have we not one God, and one Christ and one Spirit of grace poured upon us." Later, in his second letter, Clement tells his readers to "think of Jesus as of God , as the judge of the living and dead." Clement also wrote of Jesus as the preexistent Son of God; in other words, Christ existed before He took on human flesh. Ignatius of Antioch spoke of Christ's nature in his letter to the Ephesians, "There is only one physician, of flesh and of spirit, generate and ingenerate, God in man, life in death, Son of Mary and Son of God." A little later, Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. A.D. 140-202.) had to stress the humanity of Christ because of Gnostic heresy that argued that Jesus was only a divine emanation. Irenaeus wrote, "There is therefore . . . one God the Father, and one Christ Jesus our Lord, who . . . gathered together all things in himself. But in every respect, too, he is man, the formation of God: and thus he took up man into himself, the invisible becoming visible, the incomprehensible being made comprehensible, the impassible becoming capable of suffering, and the Word being made man, thus summing up all things in himself" (Against Heresies III, 16).
During the same time period, Tertullian of Carthage (ca. A.D. 155-240) wrote of Christ's nature that "what is born in the flesh is flesh and what is born in the Spirit is spirit. Flesh does not become spirit nor spirit flesh. Evidently they can (both) be in one (person). Of these Jesus is composed, of flesh as man and of spirit as God" (Against Praxeas, 14). Later he added, "We see His double state, not intermixed but conjoined in one person, Jesus, God and man" (Against Praxeas, 27).
By A.D. 325 the church had begun to systematize Christianity's response to various heretical views of Christ. The Nicene Creed stated, "We believe in God the Father All-sovereign, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all the ages, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not created, of one substance with the Father, through whom all things came into being."(3)
The belief in Jesus Christ being of the same essence as God the Father began with Jesus himself, was taught to His Apostles, who in turn handed down this belief to the early church Fathers and apologists. Christ's deity is the foundation upon which the Christian faith rests.
Notes 1. Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House, 1985), pp. 684-90. 2. Merrill C. Tenney, The Expositors Bible Commentary, vol. 9 (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan Publishing House, 1981), pp. 28-29. 3. Henry Bettenson, ed., Documents of the Christian Church (New York: Oxford University Press, 1967), p. 26.
APPENDIX
Question to ponder: Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Answer:
1. God the Father - Acts 2:24, 3:15, 5:30 1st Cor. 6:14 Gal. 1:1
2. The Holy Spirit - Rom. 1:1, 8:11
3. Jesus Himself - John 2:19, 10, 17-18
The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ
A Scripture Study of selected verses
on the eternal nature of Jesus of Nazareth
assembled by Kerry Livgren
Jesus' "godhood" is one of the essential basic doctrines of Christian belief. This is by no means an exhaustive study of the subject, but these verses of scripture from Old and New Testaments bear witness to this (unarguable) doctrine. Scripture itself teaches it better than any man could argue it. Many of these verses, when meditated upon, speak more clearly on this subject than they may at first reading.
In some cases I have grouped verses from OT and NT to be read together, emphasizing the character and identity of Christ. I assembled this list together so that Christians might have a handy reference should they need to defend their belief in the deity of Christ, at their doorstep (as is often the case), or otherwise.
(Italics in this color have been placed here by me for emphasis. I have included some brief comments below certain verses)
Psalm:49:7 No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him-- ( if Jesus were only a man, even a good man, his sacrifice was in vain and we would still be in our sins)
Jn.8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he , you will indeed die in your sins."
(this is why it is so crucial that we have a correct and full understanding of who Jesus really was.)
(Isa.43:10) "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he . Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
(God lays the groundwork here that there exists but one God.)
Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
(The Word (Logos) was both with God and was God. The Word and the Creator are one and the same)
Jn.1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(it is made clear here that Jesus of Nazareth is the incarnate Word)
Jn.10:37 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Col. 1:15 He (speaking of Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him
(This passage shows that Jesus is the Creator. If Jesus, the Logos, is not Deity then there are two Creators and two Gods)
Rev. 4:11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
Lk.22:70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
Lk.6:5 Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
(there can be but one Lord of the Sabbath- the Eternal God)
Ac.2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Jn.10:30 I and the Father are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
(The teachers of Israel understood clearly what Jesus was claiming)
Jn.8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am! "
(a clear statement of His nature, even using the Name that the Jewish leaders understood all too well)
Jn.10:38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Jn.12:45 When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.
Jn.14:7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Jn.14:8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jn.16:15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
(God will not share His glory with another)
Mt.16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Ro.1:4 ... and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro.9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Col.1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(Firstborn {prototokos} is a Greek term meaning pre-eminent one, or inheritor. It cannot mean otherwise for He could not have created Himself)
Col.2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
(what could be clearer)
1Ti.3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
1Ti.6:15 ...which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
Heb.1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
(This disarms the argument that Christ was an angel)
Rev.19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Mic.5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times". (or days of eternity)
Ro.10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
(Contemplate the full meaning of confessing that Jesus is Lord, believe it in faith and you will be saved)
1Co.8:6 ...yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Eph.4:5 ...one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Jn.3:31 "The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
(None but God Almighty is above all...)
Phil. 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(read the above verses from Phillipians keeping these below from Isaiah in mind)
Is.42:8 "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.
Is.45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Jn.13:13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Ac.2:36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Heb. 7:3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
Ro.14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Col.1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Mt.8:27 The men were amazed and asked, "What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!"
Mk.1:27 The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching--and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him."
(The preceding verses show that He is Lord of nature, and the spirits knew who He was, and feared the abyss - He was in authority over them)
Jn.17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.
(notice-"the name you gave Me", and the statement: "as we are one")
1Jn.4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
(Immanuel literally translated: God with us!)
Isa.9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Pr.9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
Mk.1:24 "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"
Lu.1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Jn.6:69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."
Isa. 44:6 "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Jehovah alone is "first and last"
Rev.1: 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev. 2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
DO NOT FAIL TO NOTICE: Who is first and last?
Either Jesus is God or there are two firsts and two lasts!
Here it is again lest there be any doubt...
Rev. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. --- 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
At this point I am inserting an excellent article by Don Closson (Probe Ministries) on the Deity of Christ. He takes a slightly different approach to the subject, but it is very thoughtful and well done. The original link is: LeaderU.com
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dudewizr
Registered
And all of Gods people said "AMEN!"Just a thought....The problem is that it's human nature to look for mysterious and spooky where there is none. To look for a way to feel important, special, unique. It's the Human fear of death that most people cannot deal with that creates the window for a "Religion".
Mormans, Christians, Scientoligists, Islam, on and on... All Nice stories told to the followers so they could sleep well at night, remain under control, and have an established set of rules (RE-written through time to fit the current need), AVOID responsibility for your own actions, and finally to ease the fear of death.
THIS IS WHY you have such huge numbers clinging and wanting to believe. NOBODY wants to die, they want to believe that THEY WILL GO ON LIVING.
Hell, organized religion exists to help folks be less afraid of their own impending death. It's EASY to prey on this kind of fear, it's a deep seated and compelling fear.
So WWJD, Yeah I believe quite simply that the VAST Majority of those CLAIMING to be Christians or whatever, tend to be little more than frightened folks looking for some answers to ease their fear. No real faith, just WISHING that they believed.
Reasons folks flock...
-Fear of death.
-Desire to be free of responsibility.
-Desire to belong to SOMETHING.
-Need to feel superior to "THOSE EVIL PEOPLE".
-Desire to feel Special, HELL some of ya actually say "I'm one of 'GODS' Childeren" (careful remember what happened to the last guy.)
-Safety, The Church has a lot of power, more so in the past but still a pretty good survival method is to claim Faith when they light up them stakes...
-Force feeding from Childhood, this is where we need warning labels on the Bible and other religious texts.
Warning Label
Christianity and God's promise of life eternal with God after death stands on one thing: The Deity of Jesus Christ (that He was who He said He was). Bottom line, Jesus said He was the "only" Son of God, literally God in the flesh (the third person of the Trinity), He was crucified for our sins, and He arose from the dead after three days in the grave (only world religion figure to ever do that by the way). Not to mention all of the miracles He performed. We know he existed because historical authors wrote more about Christ than any other single person in history. Question is, do you believe He was God's Son? That is what it is all about, not whether or not we can debate how we feel about the Holy Bible. The Bible requires a life time of study to even glean the scope of its full message, and even then we can't take it all in. So my point is simple, it isn't about how you feel about the Bible, it is about how you feel about Jesus Christ. That is what we all will stand before God someday and give an account for, whether we accepted Jesus or rejected Him.
By the way, to me it takes more faith to believe in Evolution of man (macro-evolution) than it does to believe in Creation.
Just my .02 Bros!.... Peace!
P.
Good to see ya Postal, haven't herad from ya in a while.
rtvegas
Registered
Here's my opposing view regarding this.. Given the numerous versions and translations the bible has gone through over thousands of years.. The 'evolution' of the bible.. just demonstrates for me how the evoutionary process is a constant in life... (even in publication.. haha)
I'm sure God was involved with all the re-writes as well.. =)
sorry but to be honest thats where I stopped.
Men wrote the bible and to give it any clout those men would need to be proven a reliable source. Who were they, what were their qualifications to write the bible. Do we actually know who was the first person to put ink to parchment and write the bible? It could have been a kook or skitzo who really knows. I sure dont, I cant even tell you who it was, my point is the bible has no real value as proof of anything. We cant say it's true or verifiy it's sources so it is irrelevant as a source.
That being said it has had a huge effect on the world, sometimes positive and sometimes negative, but the same can be said for science. No matter what they are both works of man and are subject to being wrong.
RaveCrusader
Registered
So, all species would have to have been spontaneously created at once without evolution. We have fossil records of species that no longer exist, so they must have died out. So, if no new species have ever evolved then all species, both extinct and currently in existence, have all existed together at one moment in time... or they would had to evolved from other species.
Again, possible but unlikely. There is fossil evidence in different levels of strata that major extinctions due to astronomical and geologic events. If there are layers of strata, consisting of thousands of years, where no land animals larger then a common dog survived then I don’t know where all the other species were hiding. Unless they just happened not to die for a few hundred thousand years so not to leave us fossil evidence.
To reiterate, evolution is a slow process. Just because you have not noticed it in your lifetime or in the last few thousand years does not mean that it is not happening right now. The sun is burning out too, but just because it is as bright today as it was yesterday does not mean that it has stopped burning out.
RT: I would encourage you to research the true history of the Holy Bible. You will find there is only one version, but several translations. Within Christianity we accept all translations that do not contradict the the Deity of Jesus Christ. Some books that we feel do contradict the Deity of Jesus Christ are: the Book of Mormon, the Jehova Witnesses' Bible, to name two prominent books. There are others as well. The truth is in the research, but it isn't something you can do overnight.
P.
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Nuff said right there.....
P.
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AMEN???
Oh come on, Postal you know I love ya, please don't take anything to heart.
THE BIBLE IS A BOOK!!!! A work written and RE-written by man.
That is all. Eventually you have to deal with the fact that the book was written by humans, humans have their own agenda's. Humans who want others to listen and fall in line will prey on ANY fears any weakness to gain a foothold on a persons psyche...
OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO SAY IT'S THE WORD OF GOD!!!! It behooves them to do so. Greed, Money, Power, Corruption. The cornerstones of modern Christianity...
Then, POOF!
The Bible.
Oh come on, Postal you know I love ya, please don't take anything to heart.
THE BIBLE IS A BOOK!!!! A work written and RE-written by man.
That is all. Eventually you have to deal with the fact that the book was written by humans, humans have their own agenda's. Humans who want others to listen and fall in line will prey on ANY fears any weakness to gain a foothold on a persons psyche...
OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO SAY IT'S THE WORD OF GOD!!!! It behooves them to do so. Greed, Money, Power, Corruption. The cornerstones of modern Christianity...
Then, POOF!
The Bible.
RaveCrusader
Registered
Best... post... ever...
Rev, you are my Bro. I am sorry if I came off like I was taking it to heart. It's all good discussion, and my response wasn't directed at you man.AMEN???
Oh come on, Postal you know I love ya, please don't take anything to heart.
THE BIBLE IS A BOOK!!!! A work written and RE-written by man.
That is all. Eventually you have to deal with the fact that the book was written by humans, humans have their own agenda's. Humans who want others to listen and fall in line will prey on ANY fears any weakness to gain a foothold on a persons psyche...
OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO SAY IT'S THE WORD OF GOD!!!! It behooves them to do so. Greed, Money, Power, Corruption. The cornerstones of modern Christianity...
Then, POOF!
The Bible.
P.
Oh yeah, and how else am I going to get my posts over 3,000? :-)
P.
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I have a strange suspicion that Suzuki will let Kaw ride on the "King Bike" throne for another year, only because they are partners in R&D. We may be looking at 08 for the "Killer Busa." Hope I am wrong though!
P.
Just so long as folks know that although it may sound like an assault, and to a certain extent it is. I like to shake the bars once in awhile.
All I really try to do is get people thinking, maybe just outside their own zone a little bit. NOT to change minds, just in the interest of stirring up thought. By golly people think a lot when they are a little po'd.
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