Lol, more of them laying in the ditch with cameras
Chris Moore has the first gen 3 turbo.
- Thread starter greg3852
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Lol, more of them laying in the ditch with cameras
Ked0607
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Let's all make note that he is actually taking time to explain things in a non clickbait platform. We should all truly appreciate this. Let's learn from his work and not be critical of it.Just for the record. I am using pump gas (98 RON, 93MON/RON AVE). 17 lb of boost. I map fuel on rpm/throttle angle (alpha n). I don't use the map sensor for anything other than cruise and idle, just like the factory. There is no use mapping against boost as boost is back pressure. For instance if I set the ride by wire throttle to not go over 30 deg I see 200 hp and 20lb of boost, but the air flow is only enough to give me 200hp. ( boost being measured after the throttle blade, closest to the engine). I have maps with throttle control per gear (it cant be called boost control because the boost is still there, but not the flow). Now ignition timing is pulled back a lot for pump gas, like around 12 deg at the top end (peak boost being at the rev limiter). I am also using the stock fuel pump,(but running 19 volts) the stock pfr (but squeezed up to give 5 bar). Stock primary injectors and stock secondary(decapped), Stock fuel rails. Tuned by me with Woolich software. This set up means under the tank isn't stuffed full with extra hardware and installation is extremely simple. The down side of this set up is that its not sensitive to atmospheric changes, that said power doesn't change a lot if it runs slightly richer which is likely to be the case from my base map. We have tested the intercooler with sensors at the air filter, supercharger inlet and at the head port and it runs surprisingly cool. With both fairing air ducts blasting through the intercooler and out the tank vents. I will post a log sometime.
The remit for building this bike was to 'Build the bike Suzuki should have'. I think we have achieved this. It is faster than an H2, an H2 tuned and an H2R, and we will prove it as soon as it can be arranged (believe me we are trying). A tuned H2R would be a close run thing, depending on gearing and overall weight. THE WHOLE BUILD IS DONE BY ME AND MY SMALL TEAM IN SILVERSTONE ENGLAND. Thanks for reading
TonyM995
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Exactly and everything he’s said makes perfect sense to me. If people don’t understand they need to learn more. He’s satisfactorily answered my questions.
Here are my comments in his thread.
The crap people gave TTS Richard is embarrassing and his kit will be faster than the HTP kit as it sits.
I’m not going to turn into an a s s h o l e because I’m here to make friends but I’m not going to sit silent and will call anyone out who is being ignorant.
Did anyone ask Chris Moore why he stated in his live feed his bike made 500 hp but he made a video titled “600 hp”?
TonyM995
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Live stream 3 days ago stating 22 psi and 500 hp. Screenshot below.
A day later video posted with all caps “600 HP ON THE STREET”. Chill with the caps and now it’s automagically making 600??
Where did the extra 100 hp come from?
If TTS did that people would lose their mind.
I’ll ask Chris Moore or anyone else to their face where did the extra numbers come from.
www.youtube.com
A day later video posted with all caps “600 HP ON THE STREET”. Chill with the caps and now it’s automagically making 600??
Where did the extra 100 hp come from?
If TTS did that people would lose their mind.
I’ll ask Chris Moore or anyone else to their face where did the extra numbers come from.
LIVE WITH CHRIS AND KOUNTRY!
Get your ECU Flashed by me.Call me at 864-608-0119 or https://www.mooremafia.com/ecu-flashing-serviceMoore Mafia Drag Racing School https://www.mooremafia.c...
www.youtube.com
powerfulone
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All I will say is why do more and more OE guys run either just a MAF sensor or MAP and MAF. An inlet valve opens maybe 270 deg of every 720 deg of crank rotation so there is always back pressure. If the supercharger is flowing the same relative to the air ingestion of the engine The pressure will remain the same. But the flow is relative to to efficiency of the engine at different revs and throttle opening and the efficiency of the supercharger as the revs rise. So if boost pressure is higher at max revs at lower throttle openings then its because of the efficiency of the engine to ingest the air. If you have just a map sensor then you will be running richer as the air flow is not as good as at full throttle but you don't have airflow correction. I set up some boosted cars with fuel relative to rpm/throttle opening and MAP correction. But it would be better with MAF correction.
Ked0607
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Let's not beat up on Moore either. Let's have less hate. They are paying to develop things out of pocket. This was a risk he took out of his pocket to develope. None of us went there. TTS was the only other to publicly invest in this so far. I have mad respect for both of these front runners and the both should respected as much.Live stream 3 days ago stating 22 psi and 500 hp. Screenshot below.
A day later video posted with all caps “600 HP ON THE STREET”. Chill with the caps and now it’s automagically making 600??
Where did the extra 100 hp come from?
If TTS did that people would lose their mind.
I’ll ask Chris Moore or anyone else to their face where did the extra numbers come from.
View attachment 1662230
LIVE WITH CHRIS AND KOUNTRY!
Get your ECU Flashed by me.Call me at 864-608-0119 or https://www.mooremafia.com/ecu-flashing-serviceMoore Mafia Drag Racing School https://www.mooremafia.c...
PeregrineKeith
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We need that competition to drive the product further along. The product will be better and the development of supporting products is going to grow some traction.
I think it’s all good and can only get better from here.
I think it’s all good and can only get better from here.
ottafish
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Yeah, but not everyone is chasing 200mph and 1/2 mile times. As stated, TTS built their bike as a road bike, as what they believe Suzuki should have offered. It's different bikes for different purposes. One is road orientated, the other will obviously be track orientated.
Being a road rider, TTS is the obvious choice. Get to keep it looking as stock and the oil cooler.
So, yeah. You're right - not everyone has $35k or wants to go 200 in the 1/2 mile.
(oh, question... why the caps all the time?)
I like the idea of a supercharger on a bike.....I know turbo bikes are very popular though.
Not long ago I was at the Ram dealer and the salesperson started up a TRX and the sound of that supercharger whine was intoxicating..
But then again the whistle of a turbo is cool as well.
That being said, the simplicity of my bike the way it sits is a great thing as well...I personally would never be able to use the power of either a turbo'd or supercharged bike...the roads around here just wouldn't hold that power as they are rough and filled with imbicile drivers-many of which are in farm machinery on the good roads...
Not long ago I was at the Ram dealer and the salesperson started up a TRX and the sound of that supercharger whine was intoxicating..
But then again the whistle of a turbo is cool as well.
That being said, the simplicity of my bike the way it sits is a great thing as well...I personally would never be able to use the power of either a turbo'd or supercharged bike...the roads around here just wouldn't hold that power as they are rough and filled with imbicile drivers-many of which are in farm machinery on the good roads...
TonyM995
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That’s fair and while I stand behind everything I’ve said. The hate isn’t going to make me any friends here.
I’m still interested in this kit and one of the few guys here who is a potential buyer.
Sadly people have been turbocharging the Busa since it came out; yet many people don’t seem to want to share what they’ve learned. I can point to several threads on this board where people just don’t answer questions or engage in meaningful conversation applicable to what was asked.
I’ve also felt like people gave me a lot of hate for going with a Fueltech yet HTP does a standalone and that’s okay. My point is yes I was frustrated.
I’ll definitely curb my anger but let’s be sure to hold Moore to the same integrity standard as TTS.
The bike is awesome so there is no reason for him to embellish the way he did.
I’m excited to see what comes next and I promise to not be such an ass hahaha
Ked0607
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yea man both parties stuck their necks out to risk it for the biscuit. @powerfulone was out of the gates first and had all eyes on him. There will be plenty more behind these two front runners.That’s fair and while I stand behind everything I’ve said. The hate isn’t going to make me any friends here.
I’m still interested in this kit and one of the few guys here who is a potential buyer.
Sadly people have been turbocharging the Busa since it came out; yet many people don’t seem to want to share what they’ve learned. I can point to several threads on this board where people just don’t answer questions or engage in meaningful conversation applicable to what was asked.
I’ve also felt like people gave me a lot of hate for going with a Fueltech yet HTP does a standalone and that’s okay. My point is yes I was frustrated.
I’ll definitely curb my anger but let’s be sure to hold Moore to the same integrity standard as TTS.
The bike is awesome so there is no reason for him to embellish the way he did.
I’m excited to see what comes next and I promise to not be such an ass hahaha
Big CC has something in the works as well for turbo kits, I assume RCC does also
sportbikeryder
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Sure....it will still be spinning and making pressure above the throttle blade. My comment was regarding the statement that the pressure was measured after the theottle blade, making "boost" but no flow. That is the part that doesn't make sense.
The purpose of the theottle blade is to throttle the flow...by creating pressure drop across it. I don't see how you would possibly still measure the same pressure post throttle blade.
TonyM995
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How couldn’t there still be 20 psi there?
He’s using the factory location to measure this. I didn’t study it much but looking at the service manual it appears they correlate the difference measured between the AP sensor (atmospheric pressure, located by the starter relay) and the IAP sensor (intake air pressure).
The IAP sensor has vacuum lines that connect between the throttle body blades and the head. Here is a picture I took for you:
TonyM995
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I mostly understand what Richard is doing and have tuned the ETV tables myself in Woolich several times. I made them so aggressive that when I clicked into 3rd gear the bike started accelerating without throttle input. oops.
One big difference between tuning with a supercharger and a turbo is that with a turbo your starting line rpm can be uncoupled from boost pressure. Boost on a supercharger is directly connected to rpm.
People said early on that Woolich doesn't support more than a 1 bar map sensor so I was also questioning how he was tuning without a 2 or 3 bar map sensor. He's answered how he's doing it and that's fine but my preference is a standalone.
One big difference between tuning with a supercharger and a turbo is that with a turbo your starting line rpm can be uncoupled from boost pressure. Boost on a supercharger is directly connected to rpm.
People said early on that Woolich doesn't support more than a 1 bar map sensor so I was also questioning how he was tuning without a 2 or 3 bar map sensor. He's answered how he's doing it and that's fine but my preference is a standalone.
Ked0607
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Those are the vacuum ports that get used to synch throttle bodies
TonyM995
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It looks like these vacuum lines terminate at the IAP sensor. I haven’t gotten far enough in my install to figure out where to plumb the MAP sensor to but I’m guessing it will be to that vacuum line. Is that correct?
Ked0607
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You would have to test to verify. I havent down anything motorwise other than exhaust and tune. I am patiently waiting on stacks and filter will be very soon.
michael parris heuberger
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Hi. Yes not everyone wants to go 200 in a 1/2 mile. Some want to go 230 in a 1/4 mile as Chris Moore has. Some want to go 300 in a mile and have more than $35,000.00 in there bike. I for one hope to do my best and get my bike done and on the street and track as soon as I have the money to finish. Wish me luck all. I would hate to fall on my fact at this late stage of my build and this late stage of my life. I think that this final build is helping live to finish this dream.
TonyM995
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Let’s go Michael, you got this!!!! Update your thread with pictures when you can!
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