EV vehicles

[Bumblebee]

And won't be for awhile.

Once more and more of them are on the roads, we will really start to see....

I've seen zero upgrades to any power grids so far...that is something which is destined to fail..

It's almost like this is all being rushed and we know what happens when something is rushed......it fails or causes lots of problems.

 

[RacingJake]

My little SunnyBoy has produced 30,000 KWH and saved 50,000 pounds of Co2 since I plugged it in 2015 but I did fart today so my Co2 took a hit.

 

[Bumblebee]

My little SunnyBoy has produced 30,000 KWH and saved 50,000 pounds of Co2 since I plugged it in 2015 but I did fart today so my Co2 took a hit.

Something has a CO2 signature in charging that thing....unless you are on nuclear, hydro electric or solar, all of which come with their own environmental issues.

 

[Bumblebee]

Was at the Ram dealership this morning and was talking to the Ass't Manager.

She said they have had 4 EV over the past few months and were only able to sell one with sending the others to auction...and barely broke even.

It seems that people around here at least aren't too interested in buying a used EV...

During the winter months they seemed to be constantly charging them as they didn't like to sit in the cold for a long period...

The same people that own their dealership also own the Toyota dealership and she said they told her full EV wasn't as popular as hybrids...they can't seem to stock enough of those. Almost all the Toyota Highlanders and Rav4s around here are hybrid.

 

[jellyrug]

It was about the power needed to make an 8000 lb Lithium battery. Of which the trucks need 2 of. I think for every Kilowatt hour of power of EV it took 65 KWs to produce.


Apply that math you braniacs.

65kW (note correct ISO spelling) to produce 1 kWh of power?
So mathematically, you are saying we need 60 kWh to produce 1kWh of power??
Huh?

Not possible to apply that math, you are confusing instantaneous demand with usage.

That's the problem here, we have folks who know very little about very much, but they know everything.

 

[jellyrug]

Was at the Ram dealership this morning and was talking to the Ass't Manager.

She said they have had 4 EV over the past few months and were only able to sell one with sending the others to auction...and barely broke even.

It seems that people around here at least aren't too interested in buying a used EV...

During the winter months they seemed to be constantly charging them as they didn't like to sit in the cold for a long period...

The same people that own their dealership also own the Toyota dealership and she said they told her full EV wasn't as popular as hybrids...they can't seem to stock enough of those. Almost all the Toyota Highlanders and Rav4s around here are hybrid.

I never realized Canada was that far behind the times.

Just jokin...

Well, at least I made a little North of $2,200 this morning on ALB, the largest Lithium producer on the globe.

 

[jellyrug]

Something has a CO2 signature in charging that thing....unless you are on nuclear, hydro electric or solar, all of which come with their own environmental issues.

Canada and the US are pretty strict on power plant emissions. They get tested annually, some cases continuous monitoring. You can't compare the kWh output of a power station with an automobile when it comes to pollution, plus the former is almost twice as efficient. At the moment there are lots of technologies applied. For the few coal fired plants remaining, wet scrubbers are mandatory. Carbon capture is next on the EPA agenda.

Power plants only make up around 30% of the total USA CO2 emissions.

So Bee, the linky below, since you can't vote at this end, are you going to now tell all of us to vote Trump back as the next President?

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Private and Public Sector Investments for Affordable Electric Vehicles | The White House

President Biden’s Investing in America Agenda is Unleashing a Manufacturing and Clean Energy Boom and Accelerating the Production of Affordable Electric

www.whitehouse.gov

BTW, my 5.7L V8 Tundra has one of the most reliable and sweetest V8's around. I'm keeping it, because the new models are now twin turbo V6, with an added hybrid motor.

Only thing about me, is I do not live in lala land and I am realistic about where the future is taking us.

 

[Bumblebee]

Only thing about me, is I do not live in lala land and I am realistic about where the future is taking us.

I know it's coming too...it's like a snow storm....I might not like it, but there isn't anything I can do about it but complain.....

And I will until I absolutely can't....

 

[Bumblebee]

I never realized Canada was that far behind the times.

Just jokin...

Well, at least I made a little North of $2,200 this morning on ALB, the largest Lithium producer on the globe.

Our power grid is in a sorry state.....we (like the US) have a vast region to provide power to and people scattered all over the place in little communities.

 

[jellyrug]

Our power grid is in a sorry state.....we (like the US) have a vast region to provide power to and people scattered all over the place in little communities.

Don't complain. My daughter, brother and sister still live in South Africa. I left in 1996. There was a time where the Dollar was Equal to the Rand, now it is 18.5 Rands to the Dollar. On average, they get around 3 -4 hours load shedding a day, where all the power is turned off, as the new government with the owned electricity supply company (ESCOM) has simply not been maintained and is falling apart. It is so bad, the employees actually destroy equipment, allowing them to get a behind the scenes payment when the contractor companies come and do repairs.

Enjoy the first world you are living in, you know that well, based on the places you were posted in.

 

[TallTom]

65kW (note correct ISO spelling) to produce 1 kWh of power?
So mathematically, you are saying we need 60 kWh to produce 1kWh of power??
Huh?

Not possible to apply that math, you are confusing instantaneous demand with usage.

That's the problem here, we have folks who know very little about very much, but they know everything.

Here you go Einstein.

Here's a link.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._for_GWh-scale_lithium-ion_battery_production

And here's a part taken right from it.

"It is concluded that these facilities use around 50-65 kWh (180-230 MJ) of electricity per kWh of battery capacity, not including other steps of the supply chain, such as mining and processing of materials."

I'm sure these guys don't know anything about what they are talking about. The whole paper is long. And has lots of graphs and abbreviations you can revel in reviewing looking for errors. Knock yourself out.

Separately from the above math, there is also lots of math that spells out the amount of CO2 loads all of this EV battery production burdens our air with.

Would you like that data too?

 

[TallTom]

Canada and the US are pretty strict on power plant emissions. They get tested annually, some cases continuous monitoring. You can't compare the kWh output of a power station with an automobile when it comes to pollution, plus the former is almost twice as efficient. At the moment there are lots of technologies applied. For the few coal fired plants remaining, wet scrubbers are mandatory. Carbon capture is next on the EPA agenda.

Power plants only make up around 30% of the total USA CO2 emissions.

So Bee, the linky below, since you can't vote at this end, are you going to now tell all of us to vote Trump back as the next President?

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Private and Public Sector Investments for Affordable Electric Vehicles | The White House

President Biden’s Investing in America Agenda is Unleashing a Manufacturing and Clean Energy Boom and Accelerating the Production of Affordable Electric

www.whitehouse.gov

BTW, my 5.7L V8 Tundra has one of the most reliable and sweetest V8's around. I'm keeping it, because the new models are now twin turbo V6, with an added hybrid motor.

Only thing about me, is I do not live in lala land and I am realistic about where the future is taking us.

You left out a lot of math in your math. Cement factories are coal fired. Paper mills. Steel smelters.

The U.S. is more than 50% invested in coal infrastructure. Down from 65%. Most of that 15% is simply from shuttering a facility, not converting them. Placing more strain on the remaining facilities to make more of things like electricity, cement, paper etc.

To convert these facilities takes years to accomplish. It's far more practical to make coal produced emissions cleaner. Rather than eliminating them. This is what I made a living at for a time. Coal not only can burn cleaner, it can do so at a cost savings. It's how they've made up for the 15%.

It's great to agree we need to do away with coal. But I'd prefer to not be set back to the middle ages to get there. Phase out coal power by phasing in nuclear power as an example.

Here's more data that's real. The U.S. exports 90% more coal than they use. China, India, etc., buy it from us. Try turning off that economy.

We keep the cleanest burning coal for ourselves. And we have mountains of it processed and stored. We sell the rest.

And we have plenty we haven't mined yet.

 

[jellyrug]

Here you go Einstein.

Here's a link.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._for_GWh-scale_lithium-ion_battery_production

And here's a part taken right from it.

"It is concluded that these facilities use around 50-65 kWh (180-230 MJ) of electricity per kWh of battery capacity, not including other steps of the supply chain, such as mining and processing of materials."

I'm sure these guys don't know anything about what they are talking about. The whole paper is long. And has lots of graphs and abbreviations you can revel in reviewing looking for errors. Knock yourself out.

Separately from the above math, there is also lots of math that spells out the amount of CO2 loads all of this EV battery production burdens our air with.

Would you like that data too?

Uncle Tom....

Quote of your sentence:
"It was about the power needed to make an 8000 lb Lithium battery. Of which the trucks need 2 of. I think for every Kilowatt hour of power of EV it took 65 KWs to produce."
Unquote.

When you try and retype sh!t you copied from the internet which you don't understand, at least type it exactly as printed. And perhaps try to type metric units in their correct form.

Do you know what the difference is between a kW and a kWh?

While we are on the subject, how much kWh do you think it takes to mine the Aluminum and cast one piston for a Busa? And then the rest.

 

[TallTom]

Uncle Tom....

Quote of your sentence:
"It was about the power needed to make an 8000 lb Lithium battery. Of which the trucks need 2 of. I think for every Kilowatt hour of power of EV it took 65 KWs to produce."
Unquote.

When you try and retype sh!t you copied from the internet which you don't understand, at least type it exactly as printed. And perhaps try to type metric units in their correct form.

Do you know what the difference is between a kW and a kWh?

While we are on the subject, how much kWh do you think it takes to mine the Aluminum and cast one piston for a Busa? And then the rest.

I didn't re-type anything.

This data was presented as it addressed the scope of manufacturing LIon batteries needed to impact the use of Class 8 trucks. The argument was if you want us to build on this scale, you need to provide us more grid power. Which was mathematically and economically impossible with our current available grid resources.

When you questioned it as valid data I simply provided data to support it.

I quoted what I heard. I backed it up with data that confirms it.

Further data was stated was if you did provide us that power, in order to build enough batteries would require the complete total Lithium produced for the next 7 years to cover the trucking industry.

But they were probably under educated hacks just making up chyt.

I could care less how much was consumed making my Busa. I'm not the one trying to sell carbon neutrality as a personal life goal.

But I'd venture an answer to say it's easier on our environment to keep existing aging vehicles on the road than the impact of forcing me to buy an electric replacement and the energy needed to get rid of the old ones.

 

[jellyrug]

I didn't re-type anything.

This data was presented as it addressed the scope of manufacturing LIon batteries needed to impact the use of Class 8 trucks. The argument was if you want us to build on this scale, you need to provide us more grid power. Which was mathematically and economically impossible with our current available grid resources.

When you questioned it as valid data I simply provided data to support it.

I quoted what I heard. I backed it up with data that confirms it.

Further data was stated was if you did provide us that power, in order to build enough batteries would require the complete total Lithium produced for the next 7 years to cover the trucking industry.

But they were probably under educated hacks just making up chyt.

I could care less how much was consumed making my Busa. I'm not the one trying to sell carbon neutrality as a personal life goal.

But I'd venture an answer to say it's easier on our environment to keep existing aging vehicles on the road than the impact of forcing me to buy an electric replacement and the energy needed to get rid of the old ones.

I invest in lithium mining, so I keep track.

Prices were up to $80,000 per ton in December, then everyone over produced to benefit from the price. So a couple of months ago there was a major over supply, price went down to $20,000 a ton. The supply for 2023 is pretty much set, there is no shortage and as long as the prices support new investment, there will be an over-supply. We are now at $43,000 a ton and it is going to be pretty flat for the rest of the year.

The challenge we have is the Chinese monopoly.

 

[Bumblebee]

Don't complain. My daughter, brother and sister still live in South Africa. I left in 1996. There was a time where the Dollar was Equal to the Rand, now it is 18.5 Rands to the Dollar. On average, they get around 3 -4 hours load shedding a day, where all the power is turned off, as the new government with the owned electricity supply company (ESCOM) has simply not been maintained and is falling apart. It is so bad, the employees actually destroy equipment, allowing them to get a behind the scenes payment when the contractor companies come and do repairs.

Enjoy the first world you are living in, you know that well, based on the places you were posted in.

Is South Africa going EV as well? I would think they'd have a real challenge to do so judging by the last time I was there and what I saw.

Crazily enough over the past 2 days I've met 3 people who hail from South Africa all at different times of course....

Don't worry, I appreciate the first world problems we face, as you know I've spent more than my share of time in the other hell holes to know better....

 

[jellyrug]

Is South Africa going EV as well? I would think they'd have a real challenge to do so judging by the last time I was there and what I saw.

Crazily enough over the past 2 days I've met 3 people who hail from South Africa all at different times of course....

Don't worry, I appreciate the first world problems we face, as you know I've spent more than my share of time in the other hell holes to know better....

I think it would be pretty tough to go EV in South Africa, although the government seems to be really promoting the idea.

 

[hayabuser]

 

[TallTom]

So in other words. Just like here in the U.S., EVs would be a failure if there wasn't govt subsidies propping up the bottom line of the manufacturer.

I wonder what the mathematic geniuses will say about the carbon footprint that was used to both create and now dispose of these unused cars.

Doesn't matter. EVs are good for the environment. Just ask them.

 

[Bumblebee]

So in other words. Just like here in the U.S., EVs would be a failure if there wasn't govt subsidies propping up the bottom line of the manufacturer.

I wonder what the mathematic geniuses will say about the carbon footprint that was used to both create and now dispose of these unused cars.

Doesn't matter. EVs are good for the environment. Just ask them.

Somewhere in Paris there is a field of EV city vehicles that need to be recycled yet nobody will recycle or touch them...