EV vehicles

Red05 said:
I understand all that but I'm talking about experiencing the immediate torque of an EV. It's really quite cool and I would love to take a Tesla Plaid for a spin. To not consider or appreciate that is why I said I don't understand the hesitancy. I would think anybody on this forum would appreciate acceleration and g force.
I'm not saying your reasons are political but pretty sure a lot of people lean the way they lean because it fits their partisan agenda.
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I don't think anyone disagrees that the torque is awesome but I won't get into the EV for several reasons most already covered... But I would bet serious money that it won't take long before those fun torque machines are govt regulated and they become not what you really wanted...
 
jellyrug said:
The first EV was built by William Morrison around 1890 in Des Moines Iowa.

First ICE car built 1885, by Gottlieb Daimler

Average life of a car is around 12 years or 200,000 miles.
Toyota Camry warranty is 5 years, 60,000 miles for powertrain.

Average life of an EV battery is between 10 - 20 years, or 300,000 miles.
Warranty 100,000 miles or 8 years.

Dealer costs to replace a Toyota Camry engine +- $11,000

Tesla costs to replace a Tesla model Y battery between $10,500 to $12,500.

Miles per gallon on a Camry average 35 mpg

Tesla model Y equivalent costs to driver charging battery 90% at home and 10% charging stations, approximately 122 miles per gallon.

Personally, my guess is next year EV sales are going to struggle a bit, new president and economy.
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From someone who’s been in the business for over 25yrs now I can tell you you ain’t getting 10-20yrs or 300,000 miles out of any EV. If you do it’s a rare occasion.

To answer the question posed in prior post the reason many of us are against them is for the same reason as we are are against the covid shots. When they push something so hard and fast on you it begins to stink like crap.
 
jellyrug said:
The first EV was built by William Morrison around 1890 in Des Moines Iowa.

First ICE car built 1885, by Gottlieb Daimler

Average life of a car is around 12 years or 200,000 miles.
Toyota Camry warranty is 5 years, 60,000 miles for powertrain.

Average life of an EV battery is between 10 - 20 years, or 300,000 miles.
Warranty 100,000 miles or 8 years.

Dealer costs to replace a Toyota Camry engine +- $11,000

Tesla costs to replace a Tesla model Y battery between $10,500 to $12,500.

Miles per gallon on a Camry average 35 mpg

Tesla model Y equivalent costs to driver charging battery 90% at home and 10% charging stations, approximately 122 miles per gallon.

Personally, my guess is next year EV sales are going to struggle a bit, new president and economy.
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There is some more relative data you fail to consider. TESLA repairs are substantially more expensive than an ICE. Pick up some road debris and crack a battery coolant line. Cost 4 digits deep. Possibly 5. IF you can find someone to do the work. TESLA does not encourage sustaining these vehicles by anyone other than TESLA. And their stock answer is, buy something really expensive to get back on the road. Not a repairable component.

Have individual cell failures? Change the whole battery pack. Get in a minor accident, they get totalled at a far less margin than a more widely produced car. Once totalled TESLA cancels out that VIN for software and network communications.

In a perfect world a Toyota Camry and a Tesla would go from cradle to grave on perfect world statistics. In reality they both don't adhere to perfect world realities.

Huge differences in those cost.

Musk, as part of his genius, purposely disenfranchises you if you don't follow the Tesla paradigm. He effs over his customers with regularity. All he has to do is downlink a "You are no longer are welcome" command.

Further TESLA can and does disable features when a car is sold used. Oh you want self driving features that the previous owner had? You have to buy it again. Oh you expect to use the long range battery pack option that vehicle has? Pay up.
 
Red05 said:
I understand all that but I'm talking about experiencing the immediate torque of an EV. It's really quite cool and I would love to take a Tesla Plaid for a spin. To not consider or appreciate that is why I said I don't understand the hesitancy. I would think anybody on this forum would appreciate acceleration and g force.
I'm not saying your reasons are political but pretty sure a lot of people lean the way they lean because it fits their partisan agenda.
Click to expand...
I was and still am (kind of) into remote controlled vehicles..

I had and still have a Tamiya Lightning rc truck which is EV, I run a "Mega Motor" high output motor in it and an electronic speed controller...

It will absolutely destroy a friend of mine's gas powered rc truck....however, when mine is cooling down and the battery is charging, he is still out running around with his....I have a couple spare batteries but the motor and speed controller have to cool off..

And I've noticed my battery life has depreciated quite a bit, I used to get 20-25 minutes on a charge, now I'm lucky to get 10 minutes and the batteries aren't that old and have a discharge system so they charge properly....

I've seen the videos of the Tesla Plaid crushing everything else...but one of those is $180K....
 
jellyrug said:
Because Biden is pushing hard to have 50% of vehicle sales EV or hybrid by 2030. Republicans believe that is unrealistic and the public should be free to make their own choices.
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well shouldnt big business be free to make their choice too? righties keep crying about the government holding big business back. GM already said they going all EV on their own. if they want to go all EV then should a company be allowed to make its own choice? what republicans believe and what’s reality are 2 different things. facts don’t care about feelings.
 
TallTom said:
There is some more relative data you fail to consider. TESLA repairs are substantially more expensive than an ICE. Pick up some road debris and crack a battery coolant line. Cost 4 digits deep. Possibly 5. IF you can find someone to do the work. TESLA does not encourage sustaining these vehicles by anyone other than TESLA. And their stock answer is, buy something really expensive to get back on the road. Not a repairable component.

Have individual cell failures? Change the whole battery pack. Get in a minor accident, they get totalled at a far less margin than a more widely produced car. Once totalled TESLA cancels out that VIN for software and network communications.

In a perfect world a Toyota Camry and a Tesla would go from cradle to grave on perfect world statistics. In reality they both don't adhere to perfect world realities.

Huge differences in those cost.

Musk, as part of his genius, purposely disenfranchises you if you don't follow the Tesla paradigm. He effs over his customers with regularity. All he has to do is downlink a "You are no longer are welcome" command.

Further TESLA can and does disable features when a car is sold used. Oh you want self driving features that the previous owner had? You have to buy it again. Oh you expect to use the long range battery pack option that vehicle has? Pay up.
Click to expand...
Add the fact insurance companies are not fixing them in the event of even a fender bender and dealerships aren't wanting them on trade ins and the used car market will collapse....

Unless the prices of these EV drop to a crazy low number of which anyone can afford a new one, EVs aren't practical...

Then we have the rust belt that will be affecting their longevity....

I have heard of some ICE cars getting crazy mileage with very few problems as well even in the rust belt....there was a guy here who had a Toyota Corolla with over 500K kms on it...
 
pcs said:
well shouldnt big business be free to make their choice too? righties keep crying about the government holding big business back. GM already said they going all EV on their own. if they want to go all EV then should a company be allowed to make its own choice? what republicans believe and what’s reality are 2 different things. facts don’t care about feelings.
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Sure, why not have the two coexist like they are now.....?

Makes sense to me....as long as the powers to be don't push the 100% EV solution (which they seem to be).
 
I'm not sure if a Prius battery will outlast a Tesla battery?

I use to be the joke in town, for riding a Busa and a Prius. One buddy suggested I sell the Busa and buy a Moped.

But we did a little over 250,000 miles with that Prius before we sold it and there were no failures. Oil changes and standard maintenance. At some point my wife was really hoping it would break down, so she can get a new car, but it just kept going.
 
I used to have a lifted, loud, angry F150 a few years ago......

One of the civilian employees at the base was a self-proclaimed greenie and used to chastise me for my truck...

So I observed him and noted a few things...he was a smoker, drove a beat up minivan and rode an old Yamaha bike (XS650) that smokes almost like a 2 stroke because it was worn out...

I called him out the next time he hassled me about my truck.....to his credit, he stopped smoking, bought a Prius and a Zero motorcycle....and thanked me...

I even got to ride the Zero bike and although it had horrible range, it was stellar, he had a second battery pack he'd strap on the back which doubled his range or so (smart).

He loved his Prius and it was pretty high tech....the Hybrid thing made sense to me because it is a self contained vessel that didn't need to be plugged in....
 
pcs said:
well shouldnt big business be free to make their choice too? righties keep crying about the government holding big business back. GM already said they going all EV on their own. if they want to go all EV then should a company be allowed to make its own choice? what republicans believe and what’s reality are 2 different things. facts don’t care about feelings.
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See that’s the problem. Govt is not letting big business decide what they want to produce. Govt is forcing automakers to conform to their unrealistic goals. Big companies are pandering to the woke ev ideology knowing full well it’s gonna fail. But they are doing it for the subsidies and kick backs nobody knows about. It’s all about the $$$$$ and not one sintilla about anything else.
 
jellyrug said:
So I have a question?

If Norway is ahead of schedule to eliminate ICE 18 months from today, are they just smarter than us? Or perhaps do they just have different values?

electrek.co

I went to Norway to see an electric vehicle paradise, but I found something more surprising

We often hear about how Norway is an electric car utopia, an example of a country that went all in...
electrek.co electrek.co
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You do know how tiny Norway is right?

It has a tiny population of less than 6 million, has a very developed public transit system, something like 2.8 million cars (including EV) and a very small land mass.....
 
jellyrug said:
So I have a question?

If Norway is ahead of schedule to eliminate ICE 18 months from today, are they just smarter than us? Or perhaps do they just have different values?

electrek.co

I went to Norway to see an electric vehicle paradise, but I found something more surprising

We often hear about how Norway is an electric car utopia, an example of a country that went all in...
electrek.co electrek.co
Click to expand...
Neither. They are doing exactly what Biden is trying to do. And Ca has. "simultaneously disincentivizing ICE-powered vehicles.". Tax the crap out of ICE, so people have little choice.

I'm sure you won't mind.
 
jellyrug said:
Yep, they are the same size as California, almost.
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But a lot less populated...something like 30 million less....

Much easier to implement this sort of change in a small population such as this with a robust public transit system...and a strong electrical grid...

There are many physical barriers to implement EV in North America even if the mind-set was there (which it isn't).
 
As someone who’s been in the industry a while….. The EV movement is strong and it will be the dominant mode of transportation in 7-10 years. I’ve seen the good and the bad but the good outweighs the bad by 10x . I’m not here to debate I’m just here to inform you of the facts. Big oil is in the game as well as heavy duty vehicle OEM’s (to include heavy equipment). Less maintenance and overall cost of ownership can’t be denied. Infrastructure is coming on strong and you would be surprised at the new developments in charging. There was a time when 50kW charging speeds were considered “ultra fast”. Mega watt charging is under development now and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Solid state battery tech is in development as well. Toyota is projected to be the first to market with this new battery technology.
 
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–0——0– said:
As someone who’s been in the industry a while….. The EV movement is strong and it will be the dominant mode of transportation in 7-10 years. I’ve seen the good and the bad but the good outweighs the bad by 10x . I’m not here to debate I’m just here to inform you of the facts. Big oil is in the game as well as heavy duty vehicle OEM’s (to include heavy equipment). Less maintenance and overall cost of ownership can’t be denied. Infrastructure is coming on strong and you would be surprised at the new developments in charging. There was a time when 50kWh charging speeds were considered “ultra fast”. Mega watt charging is under development now and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Solid state battery tech is in development as well. Toyota is projected to be the first to market with this new battery technology.
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I don't know where you are but it sure isn't coming on strong around here....there have been zero upgrades to the power grid in years and the one that exists is barely able to keep up to what it has now...yet alone a bunch of power thirsty EV...

There are very few EV on the roads around here and even less dealerships to service them...there are very few techs trained to fix them...

I've seen many articles and videos about the problems with the electrical grid in California to the point of having certain days for charging much like certain days for watering grass...

I know in the area I live in EV are not the best choice...it is a 2 hr drive to the nearest large city (Ottawa) and in inclimate weather it's longer....EV don't cut it IMO (and many, many others).

I guess the phrase "we'll see" applies here...

I'm not anti-EV, I just don't think we are ready for them yet...
 
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