EV vehicles

[Bumblebee]

I really don't understand why people don't focus more on e-fuels. I mean ... we Germans invented this over 70 years ago to refuel our planes because we were cut off from oil in WWII. Since ... no further development? Is the eco lobby really so powerful as to want to put this battery crap on our eyes? The head of development at Honda Europe, Mr. Berger, said in an interview that you could easily supply the current combustion engines with it, they could even expand all exhaust gas control systems, the Bikes/Cars would burn almost emission-free. Certainly the price would be extremely high because the production is expensive, but let's be honest, if the masses buy it, the prices also go down. All of this electromobility is a sham, the infrastructure here in Germany is not even 10% complete and the costs have so far been completely opaque. Electricity prices are rising massively, do they really mean it will be cheaper? Even if you reach the range over 400 kilometers at some point? Even the post office is doing away with its electric vehicles because they are unreliable, especially in winter and the constant reloading slows down delivery massively. What are you driving again now? Diesel! Yes, this is what progress looks like.

EV is coming whether we like it or not.....I can see the governments pricing fossil fuels so high the consumer will be driven (literally) to start buying EV....

All this before a proper infrastructure and power-grid refit and upgrade is going to result in a disaster when more and more EV demand power along with our current power demands.

To add to this, Li is not a renewable resource in itself and other battery components will need to be sourced when this runs low.

The government image of vehicle sharing, self driving hiways and autonomous systems will be a long way off I figure. I can only imagine the accidents on an autonomous hiway when terrorists figure out how to disrupt the system (and they will).

 

[fallenarch]

EV is coming whether we like it or not.....I can see the governments pricing fossil fuels so high the consumer will be driven (literally) to start buying EV....

All this before a proper infrastructure and power-grid refit and upgrade is going to result in a disaster when more and more EV demand power along with our current power demands.

To add to this, Li is not a renewable resource in itself and other battery components will need to be sourced when this runs low.

The government image of vehicle sharing, self driving hiways and autonomous systems will be a long way off I figure. I can only imagine the accidents on an autonomous hiway when terrorists figure out how to disrupt the system (and they will).

So why do you think the government is pushing us so hard to EV's?

 

[Bumblebee]

So why do you think the government is pushing us so hard to EV's?

No clue, pressure from climate lobbyists who carry lots of votes perhaps?

Maybe some of the political people have shares or interests in the EV market or field?

 

[jellyrug]

To add to this, Li is not a renewable resource in itself and other battery components will need to be sourced when this runs low.

Bee, I seem to always do this to you, sorry brother.

Lithium has more demand than supply short term, with China mining and producing most.

Lithium is extracted from brines, somewhat of a difficult process. However there are more lithium mineral fields available for mining all over the globe and the mineral is unlikely to ever be exhausted.

The US is a bit behind in the game, however you Canadians are busy gearing up to have this mineral mined all over the globe, from Canada, to Nevada in the US to Argentina among a few.

If you really want to know what the world will be short of soon, it is actually food and water needed to feed an ever increasing population. This situation is accelerated by climate change. And once again, the Canadians are at the forefront with providing solutions using advanced hydroponics. Here Google is your friend try “Mastronardi”

If you are a keen long term investor Lithium stocks, from mining to technology to production will provide you wealth, not only in knowledge, but also in money.

 

[fallenarch]

No clue, pressure from climate lobbyists who carry lots of votes perhaps?

Maybe some of the political people have shares or interests in the EV market or field?

Actually, it's because it's a great idea. The climate advantages are indisputable. The economic opportunities are indisputable. Automation will reduce accidents by 80%, that's according to the trial lawyers Association who are worried a lot of ambulance chasers will be out of a job. We all complain about distracted drivers and we're worried about a computer driving?

There is no indication that the political class has its fingers into a big pay-off from EV. It's actually the opposite - big oil pays politicians pretty well and to go against them means a difficult fundraising effort. I'm sure someone is angling for a pay-off but generally speaking, this situation is much more dire than people understand.

The really funny thing is it's the oil guys that are totally corrupt. Not that anyone who supports oil is a bad person, but rather it's because oil has been around a long time and it's the group that has the most to lose with a thriving EV economy. Those who see the amazing changes in the planet every day get it. Those who understand that the USA led the world for 70 years because of the automobile and know If we hope to lead into the future, we need to get in front of this.

The infrastructure bill that passed will upgrade the grid (in the US anyway) so you can more easily feed power into it (for solar and wind). The BBB bill that's stalled in the Senate would set up a reliable charging network.

 

[Bumblebee]

Actually, it's because it's a great idea. The climate advantages are indisputable. The economic opportunities are indisputable. Automation will reduce accidents by 80%, that's according to the trial lawyers Association who are worried a lot of ambulance chasers will be out of a job. We all complain about distracted drivers and we're worried about a computer driving?

There is no indication that the political class has its fingers into a big pay-off from EV. It's actually the opposite - big oil pays politicians pretty well and to go against them means a difficult fundraising effort. I'm sure someone is angling for a pay-off but generally speaking, this situation is much more dire than people understand.

The really funny thing is it's the oil guys that are totally corrupt. Not that anyone who supports oil is a bad person, but rather it's because oil has been around a long time and it's the group that has the most to lose with a thriving EV economy. Those who see the amazing changes in the planet every day get it. Those who understand that the USA led the world for 70 years because of the automobile and know If we hope to lead into the future, we need to get in front of this.

The infrastructure bill that passed will upgrade the grid (in the US anyway) so you can more easily feed power into it (for solar and wind). The BBB bill that's stalled in the Senate would set up a reliable charging network.

I'm not sold on it....I know petroleum has to be replaced at some point and even if EV is the replacement, it appears to me it is being rushed to the masses before it is perfected. Upgrades to infrastructure and the power-grid should be in place before launching this technology to an over-taxed system. As it stands now, we have many communities which are on the edge of their electrical power capabilities.

As for computers running things-they are not infallible nor are they 100% secure...the systems which will manage these automated systems will be hacked at some point or jammers will be used...terrorists will find a way to disrupt this system-mark my words.

 

[Bumblebee]

Bee, I seem to always do this to you, sorry brother.

Lithium has more demand than supply short term, with China mining and producing most.

Lithium is extracted from brines, somewhat of a difficult process. However there are more lithium mineral fields available for mining all over the globe and the mineral is unlikely to ever be exhausted.

The US is a bit behind in the game, however you Canadians are busy gearing up to have this mineral mined all over the globe, from Canada, to Nevada in the US to Argentina among a few.

If you really want to know what the world will be short of soon, it is actually food and water needed to feed an ever increasing population. This situation is accelerated by climate change. And once again, the Canadians are at the forefront with providing solutions using advanced hydroponics. Here Google is your friend try “Mastronardi”

If you are a keen long term investor Lithium stocks, from mining to technology to production will provide you wealth, not only in knowledge, but also in money.

I've seen pictures of these Lithium mines and they are less than pretty...toxic tailing ponds follow those as well. EV might seem like a clean energy but from all appearances it is not as clean as we are lead to believe. Mentioning China leading the charge is not a real strong anti-pollution stance.

Cars still have to fabricated out of rubber, steel, aluminum and plastic, Lithium still has to be mined, transported to fabrication and assembly plants to be made into batteries, these batteries will have to be transported to vehicle assembly plants, those batteries have to be charged up (in many cases by coal fired electrical plants) and when these vehicles and their batteries wear out, they are recycled pretty much the same as an ICE vehicle except what happens to these expended batteries?

EV still create rubber dust on the roads same as an ICE-this issue hasn't been resolved....salt and salt brine will still be used on roads, the only benefit I can see is there will be no emissions out of a tail pipe but the emissions will come from some sort of power generating system instead.

 

[sixpack577]

I've seen pictures of these Lithium mines and they are less than pretty...toxic tailing ponds follow those as well. EV might seem like a clean energy but from all appearances it is not as clean as we are lead to believe. Mentioning China leading the charge is not a real strong anti-pollution stance.

Cars still have to fabricated out of rubber, steel, aluminum and plastic, Lithium still has to be mined, transported to fabrication and assembly plants to be made into batteries, these batteries will have to be transported to vehicle assembly plants, those batteries have to be charged up (in many cases by coal fired electrical plants) and when these vehicles and their batteries wear out, they are recycled pretty much the same as an ICE vehicle except what happens to these expended batteries?

EV still create rubber dust on the roads same as an ICE-this issue hasn't been resolved....salt and salt brine will still be used on roads, the only benefit I can see is there will be no emissions out of a tail pipe but the emissions will come from some sort of power generating system instead.

ppffftttt...you and all those facts....

 

[jellyrug]

I'm not sold on it....I know petroleum has to be replaced at some point and even if EV is the replacement, it appears to me it is being rushed to the masses before it is perfected. Upgrades to infrastructure and the power-grid should be in place before launching this technology to an over-taxed system. As it stands now, we have many communities which are on the edge of their electrical power capabilities.

As for computers running things-they are not infallible nor are they 100% secure...the systems which will manage these automated systems will be hacked at some point or jammers will be used...terrorists will find a way to disrupt this system-mark my words.

LOL

Batteries are actually part of the solution to the power supply grid. Currently Hydro, wind and solar feeds mainly into the grid when there is consumption. Batteries allows the storage of that energy when it is not needed and supplying it when needed.

For those up to speed with technology and the challenge it presents, they are all working on the biggest obstacle towards full realization. It is developing a separator between the cathode and the anode, which allows a smaller battery footprint and is heat resistant. Look at kWh ratings improving and charge times reducing to a stage where it is met useable.

In Canada, where you live and it is cold during winter, you would have to drive your EV about 4,000 miles a month to use the same amount of energy as your average home uses for the same month. So Bee, just keep driving and sleep in your car with a thick blanket, that way no extra energy consumption.

 

[sixpack577]

Tell that to Texas last winter...

 

[jellyrug]

I've seen pictures of these Lithium mines and they are less than pretty...toxic tailing ponds follow those as well. EV might seem like a clean energy but from all appearances it is not as clean as we are lead to believe. Mentioning China leading the charge is not a real strong anti-pollution stance.

Cars still have to fabricated out of rubber, steel, aluminum and plastic, Lithium still has to be mined, transported to fabrication and assembly plants to be made into batteries, these batteries will have to be transported to vehicle assembly plants, those batteries have to be charged up (in many cases by coal fired electrical plants) and when these vehicles and their batteries wear out, they are recycled pretty much the same as an ICE vehicle except what happens to these expended batteries?

EV still create rubber dust on the roads same as an ICE-this issue hasn't been resolved....salt and salt brine will still be used on roads, the only benefit I can see is there will be no emissions out of a tail pipe but the emissions will come from some sort of power generating system instead.

Bee, brine mines present a very tiny fraction of the environmental spoilage created by fossil fuels. Stop shooting from the hep bud, do some research. What else does one use a huge salt field for?

I love a big V8 engine, from the sound, to the torque and the power it produces. It will be a sad day when those are all gone.

I understand however why California has drought and food production has to go elsewhere. From the little bit of Newtonian and Quantum physics I understand, my opinions are not based on hearsay, rather fact.

So in the end this is about having one’s priorities right.

 

[fallenarch]

Tell that to Texas last winter...

Texas energy is fossil fuel driven isn't it???????

 

[Bumblebee]

LOL

Batteries are actually part of the solution to the power supply grid. Currently Hydro, wind and solar feeds mainly into the grid when there is consumption. Batteries allows the storage of that energy when it is not needed and supplying it when needed.

For those up to speed with technology and the challenge it presents, they are all working on the biggest obstacle towards full realization. It is developing a separator between the cathode and the anode, which allows a smaller battery footprint and is heat resistant. Look at kWh ratings improving and charge times reducing to a stage where it is met useable.

In Canada, where you live and it is cold during winter, you would have to drive your EV about 4,000 miles a month to use the same amount of energy as your average home uses for the same month. So Bee, just keep driving and sleep in your car with a thick blanket, that way no extra energy consumption.

Batteries have a life span.......that means a constant supply of Lithium to produce more batteries-and the recycling of the old batteries.

Until battery technology doesn't rely on Lithium (a non-renewable resource), it is no better than petroleum as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree with your formula as to how far one would have to drive an EV in the winter to recap the same amount of energy...like most things it has been proven EV loses quite a bit of efficiency in cold climates due to many factors.

 

[fallenarch]

There are battery technologies that don't need lithium. I don't know how far this is away from the market but lighter, essentially plastic batteries are possible.

I guess I don't get it. Why are we doing all this damage to the environment when energy should be free? For me, it just doesn't make sense to keep burning stuff. Sure, some of us will do it as a hobby but pumping the crap into the air we breathe in the amounts we are currently seem pretty stupid to me.

 

[Bumblebee]

Bee, brine mines present a very tiny fraction of the environmental spoilage created by fossil fuels. Stop shooting from the hep bud, do some research. What else does one use a huge salt field for?

I love a big V8 engine, from the sound, to the torque and the power it produces. It will be a sad day when those are all gone.

I understand however why California has drought and food production has to go elsewhere. From the little bit of Newtonian and Quantum physics I understand, my opinions are not based on hearsay, rather fact.

So in the end this is about having one’s priorities right.

So far....wait until global demand reaches levels of petroleum then I'm quite certain the same can't be said...

California never had an abundance of fresh water and it's climate drew a surge of population.....humans settle in places such as Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada (not to mention other places across the globe) where there is a problem with water and then act surprised when it is realized.

 

[Bumblebee]

One thing is for sure, whether we all agree on this forum or not, EV is coming and there isn't "thing one" we can do about it.

 

[fallenarch]

This article is 5 years old. I lot has changed since.

The Plastic Battery That Doesn’t Explode

The inventor thinks the new technology could revolutionize the future of batteries.

www.sciencefriday.com

 

[sixpack577]

Texas energy is fossil fuel driven isn't it???????

Their windmills and clean energy couldn't keep up...or work well in freezing conditions.
Lessons learned for need of future improvements.

 

[bigoltool]

On the brighter side; no Tesla has ever had a Catalytic converter stolen!

 

[jellyrug]

One thing is for sure, whether we all agree on this forum or not, EV is coming and there isn't "thing one" we can do about it.

Sure, but if you ran the world, what would be your proposed solution?

1.) Multiply, pollute, blow methane, NOX and CO2 into the atmosphere at will? And keep doing that because all of this is just bad political greed driven by money?

2.) Declare World War III and reduce the population to something Mother Earth can sustain?

3.) Do nothing?

4.) Get help from those who have made this a life study, are knowledgeable, listen to them and use the information they provide wisely? AKA as measures to reduce the usage of fossil fuels.