Looks like a war is looming in Israel

[Blanca BusaLess]

Collective punishment and purposeful bombing of civilians is an international war crime.
The Israelis are war criminals and murderers.

Some here are ok with the above and even relish in the hopes of more than 400 air strikes every day.

 

[TallTom]

Collective punishment and purposeful bombing of civilians is an international war crime.
The Israelis are war criminals and murderers.
View attachment 1671994
Some here are ok with the above and even relish in the hopes of more than 400 air strikes every day.

Ummm. How about they are bombing Hamas sites. That are embedded in civilian infrastructure. Isn't that about the same caliber of war crime? Using your own population to shield you from enemy attacks? Who does the UN pressure to stop tactics first?

 

[Bumblebee]

Collective punishment and purposeful bombing of civilians is an international war crime.
The Israelis are war criminals and murderers.
View attachment 1671994
Some here are ok with the above and even relish in the hopes of more than 400 air strikes every day.

Could show the pictures of the Israelis that the Hamas fighters mutilated as well....scary pictures are just that-the effort to sway opinions..

The existence of Hamas can never be justified, the idea of modern day mass destruction isn't either.....

War crime, war criminals? Hard to put that label on this as if we did, the US and many other countries would be as guilty as anyone for doing this exact same thing in many middle eastern countries as well...

Then we can even go back in time and look at the bombing of cities in Europe during WW2, many of these cities were completely flat with much of the population along with it...schools, churches, hospitals were all flattened with zero remorse.

 

[kml]

I don’t think the world has ever seen anything this brutal. Makes ISIS look kind in comparison.

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cambodian genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

just off the top of my head.

 

[jellyrug]

Interesting that one of the biggest civilian casualties for a single incident was the hospital explosion.

Apparently approximately 20% of Hamas rockets misfire.

US intelligence, and a few independent organizations provided evidence clearly indicating the explosion was a Hamas rocket.

Hamas, first denied, but went quiet on this, no alternative information provided to back up their lies.

Hard to understand how intimately Palestinians hate the Jews, to stand with and support Hamas, who really don’t care about them.

Just imagine living in a home neighborhood, where your defense force lives below you in tunnels, so you will be first to be bombed, instead of trying to protect you. And then you still support them?

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Ummm. How about they are bombing Hamas sites. That are embedded in civilian infrastructure. Isn't that about the same caliber of war crime? Using your own population to shield you from enemy attacks? Who does the UN pressure to stop tactics first?

Could show the pictures of the Israelis that the Hamas fighters mutilated as well....scary pictures are just that-the effort to sway opinions..

The existence of Hamas can never be justified, the idea of modern day mass destruction isn't either.....

War crime, war criminals? Hard to put that label on this as if we did, the US and many other countries would be as guilty as anyone for doing this exact same thing in many middle eastern countries as well...

Then we can even go back in time and look at the bombing of cities in Europe during WW2, many of these cities were completely flat with much of the population along with it...schools, churches, hospitals were all flattened with zero remorse.

None of what you said negates or justifies what is now being done. At no point has anyone denied, doubted or supported what Hamas did or does.
The laws the world signed on to came about as a result of the bombing of civilians during WWII. Never again all agreed to. Now we are watching again entire neighborhoods being flattened with no purpose or goal achieved other than destruction. Two wrongs do not make a right.

We are excusing this?

How many Hamas fighters did they kill? Seen any pics? ‘Here’s a dead Hamas fighter’. Nope. Nada. Only thing I see is complete destruction and collective punishment being allowed solely because of the people it’s being done to.

I find it quite interesting how when Trump wanted to leave the UN, make them pay their fair share and all else he was the bad guy and the UN was a vitally needed organization. Yet now that once again since they are condemning Israel they are portrayed as laughable and weak and unneeded. How’s that work?
Once again.

UN condemned Israel more than all other countries combined in 2022 — monitor

General Assembly resolution backing ICJ probe capped year that saw 15 anti-Israel measures, compared to 13 against rest of world, reinforcing claims of bias at Turtle Bay

www.timesofisrael.com

Whole world is wrong I guess?

 

[TallTom]

None of what you said negates or justifies what is now being done. At no point has anyone denied, doubted or supported what Hamas did or does.
The laws the world signed on to came about as a result of the bombing of civilians during WWII. Never again all agreed to. Now we are watching again entire neighborhoods being flattened with no purpose or goal achieved other than destruction. Two wrongs do not make a right.

We are excusing this?
View attachment 1671995

View attachment 1671996
How many Hamas fighters did they kill? Seen any pics? ‘Here’s a dead Hamas fighter’. Nope. Nada. Only thing I see is complete destruction and collective punishment being allowed solely because of the people it’s being done to.

I find it quite interesting how when Trump wanted to leave the UN, make them pay their fair share and all else he was the bad guy and the UN was a vitally needed organization. Yet now that once again since they are condemning Israel they are portrayed as laughable and weak and unneeded. How’s that work?
Once again.

UN condemned Israel more than all other countries combined in 2022 — monitor

General Assembly resolution backing ICJ probe capped year that saw 15 anti-Israel measures, compared to 13 against rest of world, reinforcing claims of bias at Turtle Bay

www.timesofisrael.com

Whole world is wrong I guess?

How many of the 4000+ killed are Hamas? You or I or probably the world will never know.

 

[Bumblebee]

None of what you said negates or justifies what is now being done. At no point has anyone denied, doubted or supported what Hamas did or does.
The laws the world signed on to came about as a result of the bombing of civilians during WWII. Never again all agreed to. Now we are watching again entire neighborhoods being flattened with no purpose or goal achieved other than destruction. Two wrongs do not make a right.

We are excusing this?
View attachment 1671995

View attachment 1671996
How many Hamas fighters did they kill? Seen any pics? ‘Here’s a dead Hamas fighter’. Nope. Nada. Only thing I see is complete destruction and collective punishment being allowed solely because of the people it’s being done to.

I find it quite interesting how when Trump wanted to leave the UN, make them pay their fair share and all else he was the bad guy and the UN was a vitally needed organization. Yet now that once again since they are condemning Israel they are portrayed as laughable and weak and unneeded. How’s that work?
Once again.

UN condemned Israel more than all other countries combined in 2022 — monitor

General Assembly resolution backing ICJ probe capped year that saw 15 anti-Israel measures, compared to 13 against rest of world, reinforcing claims of bias at Turtle Bay

www.timesofisrael.com

Whole world is wrong I guess?

The UN has never had teeth...I served a couple tours with them and it was miserable, we were shot at yet couldn't engage, we had to bunker....it sucked....and the warring factions knew this and laughed at us.....until in the middle of one mission we switched from UNPROFor to IFOR.....things changed then....



I don't like to see all the destruction inflicted either......the Israelis are in a hard place to be....one that no nation wants to be....it must suck to live next door to a terror organization and try to quell their operations....a very hard thing to do as they are on their home turf.....sending in ground troops is suicide yet finding and striking targets isn't a good way either....

The sad part of all this is Hamas will survive, they will never go away....even if the Palestinian people choose to denounce and eliminate them as their governing body, they will still survive...

 

[TallTom]

The UN has never had teeth...I served a couple tours with them and it was miserable, we were shot at yet couldn't engage, we had to bunker....it sucked....and the warring factions knew this and laughed at us.....until in the middle of one mission we switched from UNPROFor to IFOR.....things changed then....



I don't like to see all the destruction inflicted either......the Israelis are in a hard place to be....one that no nation wants to be....it must suck to live next door to a terror organization and try to quell their operations....a very hard thing to do as they are on their home turf.....sending in ground troops is suicide yet finding and striking targets isn't a good way either....

The sad part of all this is Hamas will survive, they will never go away....even if the Palestinian people choose to denounce and eliminate them as their governing body, they will still survive...

Here is what I learned in my limited exposure to how different nations handle threats.

Ever notice how they don't seem to bother Russia? There has been a few small terrorist attempts to inflict terror on them.

Russia doesn't negotiate. They don't publicize the attacks. They don't make them a household name. They simply don't respond with a measured response. They retaliate with taking out the whole organization. All of their family members and anyone that was a sympathizer to them.

We call it barbaric, and ruthless. Russia calls it effective. List the number of terrorist attacks on Russia. Compare it to everything else.

Iran attempted to do a similar thing to Russia than they did to the U.S. in Iran. They attempted to take over the Embassy.

The leader of that effort was delivered to the Iranian govt dead and his balls stuffed in his mouth.

That ended that.

We went what 400+ days. And made them martyrs to the supporters.

 

[jellyrug]

Those who condemn Israel for defending themselves in this specific incident, I always wonder how their minds work?

Is it a matter of you attacked first, killed 1,400 of ours and now we have killed 1,400 of yours, so let’s call it quits and we will wait for the next round?

I can only come to the conclusion, that hate and bias supersedes any analytical logical thinking. It’s purely emotional.

The UN has doubled down on their statement BTW.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

The UN has never had teeth...I served a couple tours with them and it was miserable, we were shot at yet couldn't engage, we had to bunker....it sucked....and the warring factions knew this and laughed at us.....until in the middle of one mission we switched from UNPROFor to IFOR.....things changed then....



I don't like to see all the destruction inflicted either......the Israelis are in a hard place to be....one that no nation wants to be....it must suck to live next door to a terror organization and try to quell their operations....a very hard thing to do as they are on their home turf.....sending in ground troops is suicide yet finding and striking targets isn't a good way either....

The sad part of all this is Hamas will survive, they will never go away....even if the Palestinian people choose to denounce and eliminate them as their governing body, they will still survive...

You’re right. It must be hard oppressing people for 70yrs, restricting all things in their life and dealing with the resistance. 50yrs of it was done before Hamas ever came to be. Apartheid hasn’t worked anywhere else. Isn’t working there either. The world condemned it elsewhere. Still seems to be fine in Gaza because of who the people are.

Here is what I learned in my limited exposure to how different nations handle threats.

Ever notice how they don't seem to bother Russia? There has been a few small terrorist attempts to inflict terror on them.

Russia doesn't negotiate. They don't publicize the attacks. They don't make them a household name. They simply don't respond with a measured response. They retaliate with taking out the whole organization. All of their family members and anyone that was a sympathizer to them.

We call it barbaric, and ruthless. Russia calls it effective. List the number of terrorist attacks on Russia. Compare it to everything else.

Iran attempted to do a similar thing to Russia than they did to the U.S. in Iran. They attempted to take over the Embassy.

The leader of that effort was delivered to the Iranian govt dead and his balls stuffed in his mouth.

That ended that.

We went what 400+ days. And made them martyrs to the supporters.

Then let’s see Israel go in and kill the enemy. What are they waiting for?
Might it be they know all the doctors and lawyers and reservists they called up would get their asses handed to them? After all these are just backwards goat humpers with AKs right? Israel is the almighty right? Let’s see them go in and ‘root out Hamas’. It’s what they said they were gonna do right? Hamas is waiting? What’s Israel waiting for? Get on with it.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Those who condemn Israel for defending themselves in this specific incident, I always wonder how their minds work?

Is it a matter of you attacked first, killed 1,400 of ours and now we have killed 1,400 of yours, so let’s call it quits and we will wait for the next round?

I can only come to the conclusion, that hate and bias supersedes any analytical logical thinking. It’s purely emotional.

The UN has doubled down on their statement BTW.

Go say that to yourself in the mirror. The Irgun party and Zionists were the original terrorists there. Long before there was any Arab resistance Jewish acts of terror were being committed all over.
Talk about bias superseding logical thought. You continue to demonstrate it perfectly.
How many air strikes you hoping for today?

 

[TallTom]

You’re right. It must be hard oppressing people for 70yrs, restricting all things in their life and dealing with the resistance. 50yrs of it was done before Hamas ever came to be. Apartheid hasn’t worked anywhere else. Isn’t working there either. The world condemned it elsewhere. Still seems to be fine in Gaza because of who the people are.

Then let’s see Israel go in and kill the enemy. What are they waiting for?
Might it be they know all the doctors and lawyers and reservists they called up would get their asses handed to them? After all these are just backwards goat humpers with AKs right? Israel is the almighty right? Let’s see them go in and ‘root out Hamas’. It’s what they said they were gonna do right? Hamas is waiting? What’s Israel waiting for? Get on with it.

The U.S. is asking them to hold off. Hostages are being released. I'm sure that is a component to the stall. They have already taken 4 times the amount of lives that Hamas did. And they have levelled a city. That will take years to rebuild. If it ever gets rebuilt at all.

Israel may be cooling off a little from that. Hamas has been quick to release them. Asking for a de-escalation of attacks.

So yeah there's that.

Why are you so anxious to want escalation?

In my eyes, Israel has sent a pretty strong message of retaliation already. If they can stop here, we may just be able to see a cease fire and a containment of fronts. And a clear message that Israel doesn't negotiate like the Western nations do.

Hamas would survive. But the population may not be so inclined to let them stay in power. They are going to be living in misery for quite awhile to come.

 

[jellyrug]

Another thing I find interesting in all of this.

After all Israel’s wars which the Arab nations started, those who shook hands on peace and denounced violence, became worthy partners.

Egypt has become a strategic partner, peace for more than 40 years.

Jordan, since 1994, broad cooperation in tourism and trade.

The UAE has completely normalized relations with Israel.

Bi-lateral cooperation between Turkey and Israel.

In short, anyone who has extended a hand of friendship to Israel, found them to be a very worthy partner, especially the Western world.

 

[jellyrug]

The U.S. is asking them to hold off. Hostages are being released. I'm sure that is a component to the stall. They have already taken 4 times the amount of lives that Hamas did. And they have levelled a city. That will take years to rebuild. If it ever gets rebuilt at all.

Israel may be cooling off a little from that. Hamas has been quick to release them. Asking for a de-escalation of attacks.

So yeah there's that.

Why are you so anxious to want escalation?

In my eyes, Israel has sent a pretty strong message of retaliation already. If they can stop here, we may just be able to see a cease fire and a containment of fronts. And a clear message that Israel doesn't negotiate like the Western nations do.

Hamas would survive. But the population may not be so inclined to let them stay in power. They are going to be living in misery for quite awhile to come.

They had some comment from a former Israeli senior official this morning.

Apparently the components affecting the delay are:

Hostages, possible rescue effort including our involvement.
Need to be ready to react to Hezbollah, depending on what transpires on that front.
Evacuation of Palestinian civilians, as Hamas is not in uniform, so certain areas need to be cleared for security reasons, without leveling everything from the air.
US urging Israel to delay.
Internal agreement within Netanyahu and the IDF.
Replenishment of Iron Dome materials.

 

[Bumblebee]

You’re right. It must be hard oppressing people for 70yrs, restricting all things in their life and dealing with the resistance. 50yrs of it was done before Hamas ever came to be. Apartheid hasn’t worked anywhere else. Isn’t working there either. The world condemned it elsewhere. Still seems to be fine in Gaza because of who the people are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but am I detecting a pro-Hamas vibe?

I get the Palestinians have innocence in one sense but in another the general populace has embraced Hamas as their government and there is nothing about Hamas and their ideology that is good.

 

[mark3evo]

Then we can even go back in time and look at the bombing of cities in Europe during WW2, many of these cities were completely flat with much of the population along with it...schools, churches, hospitals were all flattened with zero remorse.

Bomber Harris

There’s a story about Arthur ‘Bomber’ Harris, the chief of RAF Bomber Command during the height of World War Two. While he was being driven to London from a military base in High Wycombe, his speeding car was pulled over by an irate police constable. ‘You could have killed someone,’ the constable scolded. ‘Young man,’ Harris replied, ‘I kill thousands of people every night.’


He wasn’t kidding. The war would see Allied bombers bring a kind of biblical wrath to enemy cities, in waves of fiery destruction that have aroused controversy ever since. The most notorious of these operations commenced on 13 February 1945, when Dresden – a city famed for its intellectual culture and architectural beauty – became the target of almost 4,000 tonnes of explosives and incendiary devices. What resulted was a raging firestorm which turned buildings to dust and cremated civilians alive. It’s estimated around 25,000 people died in the inferno of Dresden.

Was the destruction of Dresden an Allied war crime?

Famously beautiful and not a military target, Dresden still had 4,000 tonnes of bombs dropped on it

www.history.co.uk

 

[mark3evo]

repeated above

 

[jellyrug]

Bomber Harris

There’s a story about Arthur ‘Bomber’ Harris, the chief of RAF Bomber Command during the height of World War Two. While he was being driven to London from a military base in High Wycombe, his speeding car was pulled over by an irate police constable. ‘You could have killed someone,’ the constable scolded. ‘Young man,’ Harris replied, ‘I kill thousands of people every night.’


He wasn’t kidding. The war would see Allied bombers bring a kind of biblical wrath to enemy cities, in waves of fiery destruction that have aroused controversy ever since. The most notorious of these operations commenced on 13 February 1945, when Dresden – a city famed for its intellectual culture and architectural beauty – became the target of almost 4,000 tonnes of explosives and incendiary devices. What resulted was a raging firestorm which turned buildings to dust and cremated civilians alive. It’s estimated around 25,000 people died in the inferno of Dresden.

Was the destruction of Dresden an Allied war crime?

Famously beautiful and not a military target, Dresden still had 4,000 tonnes of bombs dropped on it

www.history.co.uk

Interesting story.

Israel is different though, they try and be humanitarian by sparing civilians who elected a brutal regime with one objective, that being the destruction of Israel. They put security measures in place, try to contain the enemy and then get rewarded with thousands of rockets and murders of civilians, by an enemy in plain clothes. And they get blamed for oppression in the process of trying to prevent these incidents. Imagine what Israel would have looked like after October 7th, were it not for the Iron Dome. Kind of if you don't want to accommodate a neighbor who may slit your throat, you get blamed for apartheid. There is always the one element which gets out of hand and some of the Israeli civilians in the West Bank have been pretty bad towards the Palestinians. I believe though, if the Palestinians extended a hand of friendship and could be trusted, Gaza may have been a tourist destination on the Mediterranean today.

War is a terrible thing, hopefully this is contained from spreading to us, but I dread the amount of folks who have crossed our Southern border.

 

[jellyrug]

Correct me if I'm wrong but am I detecting a pro-Hamas vibe?

I get the Palestinians have innocence in one sense but in another the general populace has embraced Hamas as their government and there is nothing about Hamas and their ideology that is good.

Hamas has masterfully branded the Hamas name into the Palestinian people, which is unfortunate. We see global incitement at this point, if the mass sympathizers had the means and the weapons, they would be doing the same thing as happened in Israel in major cities across Europe and the US.

Hamas is not only holding Israelis hostage, they are holding 1 million Palestinians hostage. To be killed as needed towards a purpose.

That is what Israel is up against.