Looks like a war is looming in Israel

[Bumblebee]

As terrible as both those scenarios sound, killing a defenseless, innocent person is worse. I’m saying it’s time for a cease fire. Hamas is an ideal and can’t be eradicated. Another solution has to be found. Both of you disagree vehemently with me; it doesn’t make any of us correct even though each of us think we are. Blaming Hamas is a given but not a solution.

There will never be a ceasefire unfortunately.....

In a perfect world, Israel would be able to cordon off Gaza and evacuate all the civilians leaving only Hamas and then wipe out everything that moves......no other country wants to take the people from Gaza and have closed their borders to them...

Many IDF troops are being killed trying to avoid killing civilians.....Hamas knows they will go out of their way to avoid these deaths and is using this fully to their advantage....as a person who has been in a very similar situation I sympathize with what the IDF is facing....and am really glad I don't have to be in them anymore....

Bigger brains than mine are struggling to find the solution to this situation...

 

[Red05]

There will never be a ceasefire unfortunately.....

I hope you’re wrong. I thought I was wrong once but I was wrong.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Israel’s mission is to utterly destroy Hamas and Hezbollah and any other militant group that has pledged to destroy Israel… and so we see the results of this in action.
Israel just destroyed 6000 missiles in one day!! And Hezbollah has a stockpile of 150,000 missiles it is claimed.
So we are in for a long period of war.
Ceasefires and 2 state solutions are not on the enemies’ of Israel’s agenda.. only destruction and genocide.
And Israel have vowed to push back harder than their enemies are pushing at them.

 

[Bumblebee]

I hope you’re wrong. I thought I was wrong once but I was wrong.

I hope I'm wrong as well but I have spent enough time in the middle east to know the enemy Israel faces.

The next generation of Hamas fighter is already being raised in the Gaza so the cycle will continue...add to this Iran is the puppet master and is supplying and supporting it's proxy terror cells....

I think Iran will soon be in the cross hairs....I predict low yield nukes are going to come into play before all this is done.....

.....and I really hope I'm wrong......

 

[jellyrug]

As terrible as both those scenarios sound, killing a defenseless, innocent person is worse. I’m saying it’s time for a cease fire. Hamas is an ideal and can’t be eradicated. Another solution has to be found. Both of you disagree vehemently with me; it doesn’t make any of us correct even though each of us think we are. Blaming Hamas is a given but not a solution.

Just trying to have a logical, rational, and intellectual discussion with you.

If we consider the two things you have mentioned above:

1.) "Hamas is an ideal and can’t be eradicated."

2.) "I’m saying it’s time for a cease fire."

Those two statements are a head-on collision which cannot be stopped.

From the above, Hamas's ideal is to destroy Israel, as a proxy of Iran, being the real force behind all of this. Until that ideal (the destruction of Israel) changes, how is it even possible to think about a cease fire? If that ideal does not change and the agenda is to destroy Israel, there are really only two options. Destroy Israel or destroy Hamas. That is a very simple choice the Western world has to make. Have you noticed that Hamas is not even amicable to any discussion in Egypt at this time?

Logically and practically, neither party is amicable to a cease fire. They only have one goal, which is to destroy each other, based on Hamas's ideal, (destroy Israel) as you say which cannot be eradicated. How can anyone try and force a cease fire under those conditions and totally ignore where this is coming from, Iran. How can the Western world keep ignoring the root cause of all of this, being Iran? How can anyone with a logical mind not think, that perhaps, maybe, under the previous Administration where Iran was on their knees, there was a possibility that this war may not have happened.?

I honestly believe, that to stop the sacrifice of innocent civilians, which is fine with Hamas as it is part of their strategy to get international support, similar to how you think, there are really only two solutions. One is eliminate Hamas, the other is to threaten Iran with destruction of their nuclear facilities and their oil fields, should they continue wars throughout the Middle East, via their proxies.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

When terrorists hold up children as human shields, do you shoot through the children? Is that the right thing to do in that instance?
The majority of what Israel is mopping up is innocent Palestine blood. How long will this be seen as justified?

Hi. So you would let your chrilden be killed by terrorists who are holding up kits??????

 

[michael parris heuberger]

I hope I'm wrong as well but I have spent enough time in the middle east to know the enemy Israel faces.

The next generation of Hamas fighter is already being raised in the Gaza so the cycle will continue...add to this Iran is the puppet master and is supplying and supporting it's proxy terror cells....

I think Iran will soon be in the cross hairs....I predict low yield nukes are going to come into play before all this is done.....

.....and I really hope I'm wrong......

Hi. Did you get to read any kids story books by hamas?

 

[jellyrug]

Hi. So you would let your chrilden be killed by terrorists who are holding up kits??????

We call that the three finger situation. When you point a finger at someone, best is to look down at your hand. You will notice three fingers pointing back at you. Normally a better place to start, in terms of solving the problem and who is to blame.

Hard to figure out how Democrats can give credit to terrorists who use human shields and blame Israel for the casualties. Probably the reason both me and Kennedy Jr. are no longer Democrats. Same reason Tulsi Gabbard is no longer a Democrat. Some folks who have just a few grains of common sense sees the light.

LOL, my friends from overseas are asking a question I have no answers for. They want to know if Kamala can run for President, why can't anyone who has at least and IQ of a tad above 100, rather run for the job?

 

[michael parris heuberger]

1620? You mean 1920? I have no idea why or what you're asking.

Hi. No on the Mayflower.

 

[jellyrug]

Bigger brains than mine are struggling to find the solution to this situation...

At this stage, it looks like we may not find those bigger brains. The Democratic Elite seems more competitive than most expected. Lot of wealth behind the party, plus the Clintons the Obamas, the Pelosi's, the Schumers, George Soros, the Kennedys (excluding junior) etc.

I believe the solution is simple, allowing Israel to do what they have to do and if Iran joins the party, to help Israel not only in defence, but also in attack towards eliminating the threats.

I hate to think what it is costing the taxpayer, right now, considering our debt, to surround almost the whole Middle East continent, with naval forces and for how long we have to do this if we don't get serious towards putting an end to it.

 

[Bumblebee]

At this stage, it looks like we may not find those bigger brains. The Democratic Elite seems more competitive than most expected. Lot of wealth behind the party, plus the Clintons the Obamas, the Pelosi's, the Schumers, George Soros, the Kennedys (excluding junior) etc.

I believe the solution is simple, allowing Israel to do what they have to do and if Iran joins the party, to help Israel not only in defence, but also in attack towards eliminating the threats.

I hate to think what it is costing the taxpayer, right now, considering our debt, to surround almost the whole Middle East continent, with naval forces and for how long we have to do this if we don't get serious towards putting an end to it.

I imagine the cost of supporting this and Ukraine to taxpayers would rival the GDP of many countries.....

Iran is a tough nut to crack as their very geography make them a hard target to engage....what would be most beneficial is to have some sort of insurgency operating within Iran itself fighting them from the inside out.

However Iran has it's proxy terror insurgents which are a real threat unto themselves....Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas would all band together against Israel....which would suck at least the US in as Israel starts to have heavy losses.....once the US is an open player, all bets are off as to the level of escalation.

There is a belief in certain circles that al Qaeda and ISIS are funded at least partially by Iran as well........if so, they could play a role in all of this which would add to the threat posture.

 

[jellyrug]

I imagine the cost of supporting this and Ukraine to taxpayers would rival the GDP of many countries.....

Who knows, but if you believe what Tulsi Gabbard says, the current Administration is influenced by the defence supply industry to keep these wars going, as it benefits their shareholders who have a lot of influence over the Democratic party.

Iran is a tough nut to crack as their very geography make them a hard target to engage....what would be most beneficial is to have some sort of insurgency operating within Iran itself fighting them from the inside out.

Don't crack the nut. Start with the nuclear facilities, attack one. If they don't listen, take out an oil field. Immediately right now, enforce all the sanctions which were in place under the previous Administration.

However Iran has it's proxy terror insurgents which are a real threat unto themselves....Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas would all band together against Israel....which would suck at least the US in as Israel starts to have heavy losses.....once the US is an open player, all bets are off as to the level of escalation.

I believe if Iran gets hurt, this will stop. Iran needs to be warned that they will pay the price for any Proxy support, in finance, weapons and training.

There is a belief in certain circles that al Qaeda and ISIS are funded at least partially by Iran as well........if so, they could play a role in all of this which would add to the threat posture.

Pretty sure about Al Qaeda, hard to believe they will support ISIS, but who knows?

References to my post below:

See around 14:30

 

[Bumblebee]

Who knows, but if you believe what Tulsi Gabbard says, the current Administration is influenced by the defence supply industry to keep these wars going, as it benefits their shareholders who have a lot of influence over the Democratic party.

Don't crack the nut. Start with the nuclear facilities, attack one. If they don't listen, take out an oil field. Immediately right now, enforce all the sanctions which were in place under the previous Administration.

I believe if Iran gets hurt, this will stop. Iran needs to be warned that they will pay the price for any Proxy support, in finance, weapons and training.

Pretty sure about Al Qaeda, hard to believe they will support ISIS, but who knows?

References to my post below:

See around 14:30

I 100% believe that arms/defense industries have a gigantic influence on the administration regardless of which one is in the seat........

It's a huge money maker as well as a great bargaining chip to hold over other countries.....

The problem with attacking anything on Iranian soil is that once that door is open, it will open all the way and the west will have no choice but to commit.....sanctions were effective...that seems to be the way forward...they need to be strongly enforced...although the sanctions are strong towards North Korea yet somehow they are managing to be a pain in the arse....I guess enough materials are slipping through the cracks.

The thing about proxies is that these factions work independent of their parent support base and can dissolve into insurgency very quickly....fighting an insurgency is very hard........I get to wondering how many sleeper cells can be activated in western countries..............or if they would ever activate them as they are most likely being used to garner financial support for their home factions.

 

[jellyrug]

I 100% believe that arms/defense industries have a gigantic influence on the administration regardless of which one is in the seat........

It's a huge money maker as well as a great bargaining chip to hold over other countries.....

If you have time to watch Tulsi's video, extremely powerful. Based on your background, it would surprise me if you don't identify with that.

The problem with attacking anything on Iranian soil is that once that door is open, it will open all the way and the west will have no choice but to commit.....sanctions were effective...that seems to be the way forward...they need to be strongly enforced...although the sanctions are strong towards North Korea yet somehow they are managing to be a pain in the arse....I guess enough materials are slipping through the cracks.

The previous Administration had Iran pretty much intact. There were both attacks (Soleimani) and sanctions. Those sanctions were enforced internationally, penalizing countries who bypass them. They were effective. They are no longer enforced.

The thing about proxies is that these factions work independent of their parent support base and can dissolve into insurgency very quickly....fighting an insurgency is very hard........I get to wondering how many sleeper cells can be activated in western countries..............or if they would ever activate them as they are most likely being used to garner financial support for their home factions.

Iran seems to have a pretty good handle on their proxies. Dissolving them into insurgencies seem to be part of their strategy, however they seem to have a pretty good handle on that based on financial and arms support.

 

[Red05]

Just trying to have a logical, rational, and intellectual discussion with you.

I appreciate that

One is eliminate Hamas, the other is to threaten Iran with destruction of their nuclear facilities and their oil fields, should they continue wars throughout the Middle East, via their proxies.

Again, I think only the second option is viable. An ideological, religious or whatever sentiment is not going to be eliminated. By cease fire I mean in Gaza, not permanent peace in the Middle East. That has eluded the world for a long time.

I honestly believe, that to stop the sacrifice of innocent civilians, which is fine with Hamas as it is part of their strategy to get international support, similar to how you think, there are really only two solutions.

I can't believe anyone save Iran feels any support for Hamas. Equating the acknowledgement that innocent Palestinians should be helped, with supporting Hamas or Iran, is nonsensical. The situation is way beyond that in complexity.

 

[jellyrug]

I appreciate that

Again, I think only the second option is viable. An ideological, religious or whatever sentiment is not going to be eliminated. By cease fire I mean in Gaza, not permanent peace in the Middle East. That has eluded the world for a long time.


I can't believe anyone save Iran feels any support for Hamas. Equating the acknowledgement that innocent Palestinians should be helped, with supporting Hamas or Iran, is nonsensical. The situation is way beyond that in complexity.

We have to accept that 20% of Israel’s population are Arabs, who chose not to follow the Hamas ideology and who live peacefully integrated among the Jews.

We also have to accept that the Palestinians in Gaza have been taught since kids to hate Israel and the Israeli people. With that much intense hate, further fueled by this war, one has to ask the question whether they will ever forgive? Japan forgave and are now an ally, irrespective of a nuclear massacre much worse than Gaza has ever seen. Japan is now our ally.

Again I believe, the only solution is to eliminate Hamas, which appears not to be too far away. Then contain Gaza with military rule, until such time as that ideology is no more. Could possibly be only until the next generation. We may find a different negotiation tactic and more success once Hamas is defeated. I find it hard to believe that Palestinians at some point won’t realize that they have only two choices. Suffering and death, compared to survival and eventual peace.

 

[Red05]

We may find a different negotiation tactic and more success once Hamas is defeated.

I got an image of you on your front porch watching for flying pigs

I find it hard to believe that Palestinians at some point won’t realize that they have only two choices. Suffering and death, compared to survival and eventual peace.

How would Palestinians go about pursuing that second option, with the ceaseless bombings, as things are now?

 

[jellyrug]

I got an image of you on your front porch watching for flying pigs

LOL

How would Palestinians go about pursuing that second option, with the ceaseless bombings, as things are now?

Sequence of events. Once Hamas is eliminated, which many believe is close, talks and negotiations will be necessary to agree on how to rebuild the place. And how to run it, short term, medium term, long term.

How does your brain work? What bombings do you expect after Hamas has been defeated?

How does your brain work #2? Do you think this will go on forever and Palestinians will survive among the rubbles and remains forever?

Do you have a vision of something with an infinite no end or something I am missing?

You hated math at school, or am I misreading the way you think?

See if you can grasp the article below:

Can Hamas Be Left to Defeat Itself?

Debating the endgame in Gaza.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[michael parris heuberger]

I appreciate that

Again, I think only the second option is viable. An ideological, religious or whatever sentiment is not going to be eliminated. By cease fire I mean in Gaza, not permanent peace in the Middle East. That has eluded the world for a long time.


I can't believe anyone save Iran feels any support for Hamas. Equating the acknowledgement that innocent Palestinians should be helped, with supporting Hamas or Iran, is nonsensical. The situation is way beyond that in complexity.

Hi. With no answer I guess you would let hamas shoot you and your kids. If you do shoot the kids and the terroist you would have to live with that the rest of you life. Not every one can take a life but a lot of people can. They can take good peoples lives so we must stop them anyway we can. Do not ask some of us on here how we know.

 

[Red05]

LOL

Sequence of events. Once Hamas is eliminated, which many believe is close, talks and negotiations will be necessary to agree on how to rebuild the place. And how to run it, short term, medium term, long term.

How does your brain work? What bombings do you expect after Hamas has been defeated?

We seem to have a disconnect. Hamas being eliminated is a pipe dream in my opinion. Obviously, for the sake of the hypothetical, there would be no more bombings should that actually occur.

How does your brain work #2? Do you think this will go on forever and Palestinians will survive among the rubbles and remains forever?

That makes no sense. Should there be a ceasefire, support would go in and help rebuild. If it doesn’t happen and there still Palestinians alive after Israel “eradicates” Hamas, same scenario. I believe all things have an end, and I’m pretty darn good at math.
The fact that you think that how I think is flawed because we disagree is telling and a bit tiresome. You did the same to Bee. Learning from opposing viewpoints doesn’t seem to be in your wheelhouse. It’s necessary for productive conversation.

“Israel has done more to prevent civilian casualties in war than any military in history,” John Spencer, the chair of urban warfare studies at West Point, has observed, “setting a standard that will be both hard and potentially problematic to repeat.”

That’s a mouthful of crap. 40,000 dead and almost 100,000 injured. Who knows how many homeless.