Looks like a war is looming in Israel

[jellyrug]

Yet here you are, still posting. Ego, anyone?

Sure, as I said, posting articles about the war, not posting or defending my opinion.

If I post an article, and the response is an attack, as from you and Blanca, you are just rewinding and replaying the same old stuff over and over. Blanca since 2012, perhaps even further back.

Really, try and add a bit of value, other than your Mano Mano ego battle.

Throughout this entire thread, over and over, the only thing you have done is whined. No substance about logical solutions, no substance on strategy to end the war, stop the carnage, really no substance at all. Any attempt to draw you into an intellectual logical discussion, of how to get from point A to B, failed.

 

[Red05]

Throughout this entire thread, over and over, the only thing you have done is whined. No substance about logical solutions, no substance on strategy to end the war, stop the carnage, really no substance at all. Any attempt to draw you into an intellectual logical discussion, of how to get from point A to B, failed.

None of us, save Blanca have added anything in quite a while. Pages. I have stated possible outcomes and you use your personally edited memory and your other favorite tool, personal attacks, when you exhaust your ability to demand that your way is correct, and define it as intellectual.
It’s probably worked for most of your life, so I get why.

 

[Bumblebee]

The very real thing we can all face is...........we are all on a Hayabusa forum and nothing we say or feel will mean a hill of beans when it comes to world events......

Nobody really cares what we think and all it is seeming to do is get people against each other here on the forum....

We all have very different life experiences which that can be to the benefit of current world events...or it can be a detractor.......

 

[jellyrug]

I have stated possible outcomes

Remind me about your view of possible outcomes?

A debate is either won, or lost. Those who don’t win, or lose get stuck in the middle, defending their ego’s. I often lose a debate, because I don’t let my ego get in the way.

Only you can decide where you fit.

My attempts to draw Blanca into an intellectual debate, was met with name calling and a final statement saying something like he would rather be a non-intellectual than a murderer.

My attempt to draw you into an intellectual debate ended often with a bruised ego and no logical substance, other than I think I am always correct.

 

[Red05]

No time now. I'll type later

 

[jellyrug]

The very real thing we can all face is...........we are all on a Hayabusa forum and nothing we say or feel will mean a hill of beans when it comes to world events......

Nobody really cares what we think and all it is seeming to do is get people against each other here on the forum....

We all have very different life experiences which that can be to the benefit of current world events...or it can be a detractor.......

I agree with everything you say.

I find it very interesting though, to explore how others think, and if they complain about an issue, but are not willing to offer what they think might be a solution, to try and figure out how their minds really work.

Yep, we all have very different life experiences and we have different opinions about a lot of things.

And we have egos of very different sizes.

 

[Red05]

I would like to see a 2 state system finally employed in Gaza. The Israeli and Palestinian population in the area are for it, but Netanyahu is firmly against it, and Hamas remains a problem.

I made another post going into it with a little more elaboration and it led us to discuss what Biden's course of action should be. My opinion is that it should be minimal; it's not our (this country's) deal. The ongoing disagreement seems to revolve on whether sympathy for the innocents in the Gaza region adds up to antisemitism.

I don't think either one of us is capable of knowing without a doubt the right thing to do about Gaza, without seeing the circumstances, boots on the ground type thing. I don't dislike debate, I don't like the practice of questioning a person's thought process based on a perceived inability to intellectually explore. That's what you do, intentionally or not, you attack personally. I imagine it's been successful for you before, so I get it. You say a person has an opinion based on emotion or just being dense when actually it's an opinion that doesn't match yours. As Bee said, none of our opinions don't add up to a hill of beans on this.
Trying to figure out how a person's mind works is an honorable task and takes time and intricacies that we don't really have on an internet forum. I don't feel any loss in our discussion, and I doubt you feel any either, as we aren't friends.

 

[jellyrug]

I made another post going into it with a little more elaboration and it led us to discuss what Biden's course of action should be. My opinion is that it should be minimal; it's not our (this country's) deal. The ongoing disagreement seems to revolve on whether sympathy for the innocents in the Gaza region adds up to antisemitism.

I don't think either one of us is capable of knowing without a doubt the right thing to do about Gaza, without seeing the circumstances, boots on the ground type thing. I don't dislike debate, I don't like the practice of questioning a person's thought process based on a perceived inability to intellectually explore. That's what you do, intentionally or not, you attack personally. I imagine it's been successful for you before, so I get it. You say a person has an opinion based on emotion or just being dense when actually it's an opinion that doesn't match yours. As Bee said, none of our opinions don't add up to a hill of beans on this.
Trying to figure out how a person's mind works is an honorable task and takes time and intricacies that we don't really have on an internet forum. I don't feel any loss in our discussion, and I doubt you feel any either, as we aren't friends.

I find it hard to believe anyone would not have sympathy with the innocent people being killed in Gaza.

I find it just as hard to believe anyone would criticize either the IDF, or Hamas, depending on who they side with, absent of at least suggesting a solution to the problem. In this case it is simple. If you support Hamas, then you have to support their charter, and the solution to the problem is pursuing every possible action to remove Israel from the region, including purposely targeting civilians, taking hostages, using human shields and an endeavor to turn the world against Israel. If you support Israel, the solution to the problem is doing everything possible to defend themselves by eliminating Hamas until they surrender and the region can be rebuilt. If the obstacle is human shields, their only solution is to work around that obstacle as best as they can.

It is a simple choice, with a logical outcome.
The solution to not choosing a side and just criticizing, both, without proposing any solution, simply means prolonging the current agony into infinity.

You and Bee are correct, no one cares about what we think, it is however interesting to explore and reason with others regarding their thoughts, provided there is substance to the discussion.

About me attacking, there has been several attacks in this thread by most of us, I would give Blanca the medal for being the chief attacker. You and I may be running a close second or third, but even the wise Bee attacked at some point.

 

[Duro5341]

It is a simple choice, with a logical outcome.
The solution to not choosing a side and just criticizing, both, without proposing any solution, simply means prolonging the current agony into infinity

You are 100% correct..........................There is a simple YES/NO choice here.
Hamas is a bully and a coward, and the ONLY way you deal with a bully is become a bigger bully and put them well in their place with NO uncertainty and keep them there at ALL COST.

Sadly, there people in this world who believe hugs and kisses can save the world.....................clearly they haven't learned that bullies have NO mercy and will simply beat them into submission while they scream for help from those who dared to stand up and put the bully in it's place.

As far as I am concerned at this point, If Trump doesn't win the election and put the Islamic genie back in it's bottle, the US is lost and gone...................I hope their fall from grace as quickly, as sharply, and as aggressively as possible, impacting the most people to ensure the lesson is learned well.
The American people made their choice, and I hope the rest of the world holds them accountable for letting the Genie conquered the world for Islam.

In turn if Canada elects the Liberals or NDP again next year, Canada will be forever lost................................I will be quitting my job and working for cash on the side. I won't support a corrupt and inept government system anymore, full of woke cowards afraid to offend in a world of bullies forcing their way through life.

Cameron

 

[Red05]

As far as I am concerned at this point, If Trump doesn't win the election and put the Islamic genie back in it's bottle, the US is lost and gone...................I hope their fall from grace as quickly, as sharply, and as aggressively as possible, impacting the most people to ensure the lesson is learned well.
The American people made their choice, and I hope the rest of the world holds them accountable for letting the Genie conquered the world for Islam.

So dramatic this morning, Cameron. To equate Hamas with all of Islam, or to put such importance on the upcoming U.S. presidential election is extreme

Sadly, there people in this world who believe hugs and kisses can save the world.....................clearly they haven't learned that bullies have NO mercy and will simply beat them into submission while they scream for help from those who dared to stand up and put the bully in it's place.

What's sad is the bully has no place to put them back in to. An enemy with no borders will not be eradicated militarily. As the United States went into Iraq following 9/11 the United States was as divided about the move as it is now. I was invited to leave the country during a discussion on a different forum. I mention it because the enemy, it turned out, had no borders then either.

the ONLY way you deal with a bully is become a bigger bully and put them well in their place with NO uncertainty and keep them there at ALL COST.

Pretty easy to write a check with someone else's money

 

[Red05]

I find it just as hard to believe anyone would criticize either the IDF, or Hamas, depending on who they side with, absent of at least suggesting a solution to the problem.

Criticizing the IDF does not equate to siding with Hamas. I don't venture to form an expansive theoretical resolution because I'm not able to, and my inexact suggestions go unheard anyway.

 

[jellyrug]

Criticizing the IDF does not equate to siding with Hamas. I don't venture to form an expansive theoretical resolution because I'm not able to, and my inexact suggestions go unheard anyway.

This is really getting old.

Criticizing the IDF is meant towards their ultimate mission and objective to end the war.

We all criticize them when not enough caution is taken towards limiting civilian casualties. That is something totally different.

If you criticize the former, really your only choice is to side with Hamas.

I’m out, not able to engage at this intellectual level.

You win.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

In re: “If you criticize the former, really your only choice is to side with Hamas.”

What a stupid thing to say. Assumes soooo much, too much, in error no less.

 

[Duro5341]

So dramatic this morning, Cameron. To equate Hamas with all of Islam

Well see, this is the interesting part.............While I will agree that NOT all Islamic followers are terrorists, the ONLY terrorist group killing it's own citizens and Israelis because of their race/religion is Hamas which is deeply rooted in Islam. It seems the "religion of peace" is anything but when you don't obey them and bend the knee.

Let me give it to you this way....................If I put a bowl of skittles in front of you, they represent the citizens of the world.
Different colours are different religions, ethnicity, and colours of citizens.

If I tell you that not all the red ones will kill you, but 10% of the red ones might kill you..........................would you take the chance eating the red ones, or simply remove them from the bowl and enjoy the rest?.

Like it or not, the solution to the Islamic problem in the middle east is to either remove it, or contain it at all cost and NOT let it interact with anyone other than themselves. The longer you wait to deal with the issue, the more people will die.....................do you continue to kill innocent people for nothing, or cut your losses now and fix the problem?

Red05 - If you choose to support or make ANY justifications for what Hamas is doing, then I can only say you are just as bad as them, and should be reported to authorities as a terrorist sympathizer.

Cameron

 

[Red05]

Let me give it to you this way....................If I put a bowl of skittles in front of you, they represent the citizens of the world.
Different colours are different religions, ethnicity, and colours of citizens.

If I tell you that not all the red ones will kill you, but 10% of the red ones might kill you..........................would you take the chance eating the red ones, or simply remove them from the bowl and enjoy the rest?.

Going by that terrible simile I would probably isolate myself from mankind completely

Red05 - If you choose to support or make ANY justifications for what Hamas is doing, then I can only say you are just as bad as them, and should be reported to authorities as a terrorist sympathizer.

If you can find where I've ever made any justifications for the actions of Hamas, you're a magic man because no, it hasn't happened. I had the gall to feel sorry for the Palestinians in Gaza and was pistol whipped thoroughly for it. Luckily, I'm tougher than a cheap steak.

 

[Red05]

In re: “If you criticize the former, really your only choice is to side with Hamas.”

What a stupid thing to say. Assumes soooo much, too much, in error no less.

Yes similar to saying that a person that is against capital punishment must be in favor of everything Gary Gilmore did.

 

[jellyrug]

In re: “If you criticize the former, really your only choice is to side with Hamas.”

What a stupid thing to say. Assumes soooo much, too much, in error no less.

So let’s explore your statement, regarding what you deem as stupid:

If you criticize Israel’s right to defend itself, by eliminating Hamas, who has a charter to remove Israel from the region, your only alternative is to support Hamas.

So if you really believe that is stupid, what alternative would you suggest Israel follow?

I would expect not to get a straight answer from you, but if you can answer that logically, it would be very interesting to analyze.

My guess is, you were not smart enough to understand the original statement, however I wait in anticipation.

In essence, the implication of what you typed, is an opinion that Israel does not have the right to defend itself.

 

[Red05]

I would expect not to get a straight answer from you, but if you can answer that logically, it would be very interesting to analyze.

My guess is, you were not smart enough to understand the original statement, however I wait in anticipation.

To analyze how IDF is going about the situation is the same as supporting Hamas, as if there is no other option. That’s your position? So be it. Do you have an opinion on any alternative way Israel should handle the situation? If Hamas is not eradicated, at what point should something else be considered?
I realize you were speaking to Wuzza

 

[jellyrug]

To analyze how IDF is going about the situation is the same as supporting Hamas, as if there is no other option. That’s your position? So be it. Do you have an opinion on any alternative way Israel should handle the situation? If Hamas is not eradicated, at what point should something else be considered?
I realize you were speaking to Wuzza

No, it’s not my position, at all.

You totally don’t get it and as mentioned, I raised the white flag.

Read post 2012 again, perhaps a few times, maybe that will help you understand why I raised the white flag.

 

[Red05]

No, it’s not my position, at all.

You totally don’t get it and as mentioned, I raised the white flag.

Read post 2012 again, perhaps a few times, maybe that will help you understand why I raised the white flag.

I read it and understood. Now can you answer my question? I think it was Dale Carnegie that said that discouragement and failure are two stepping stones to success. Do you have any ideas as to what Isreal should do if at some point it appears that Hamas is not going to surrender or go away? It wouldn’t necessarily mean failure on their part, they’ve made significant gains in the area, but sometimes that last mile is a son of a gun.
Forget the flag, this isn’t war, just conversation.